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Dake to compete in Spain before wrestle off with Dieringer

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1 minute ago, spladle08 said:

Fair.

It's a gross situation but all we can hope is Ringer wins when the match happens and we avoid having a little primadonna at that weight or on the team, in the future.

GO RINGER
GO USA

Go team!!! Woooooo

If Ringer wins, Dake is going to throw a hissy fit and make up a bunch of excuses. 

Mom picking Dake still. The guy is so incredibly good

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5 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

He said “The goal is to get the best team for worlds”

if that is true, then Downey shouldn’t be on the team. We can’t go around making up rules because we want Dake at 100%. I also want Dake at 100%, but not if it means he breaks the rules and lawyers up to bully USA wrestling. He is being selfish and acting like a little kid. It’s embarrassing. 

Who is better than Downey?  

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I'm sure if they didnt allow this, then Dake would have just brought in top level guys to push him in live matches to knock off the rust. 

I dont think he is doing these things to ruin Dieringers training or peaking or other things people have said. It is 100% about getting as mat ready as possible, which he wasnt able to do because of injury.

Either way, the winner is a contender for gold, which is good for our team. 

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3 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I'll try to be as mild as possible....if you had to bet your life on Martin/Downey #2....many would take martin. 

Yeah but that match was actually wrestled. Martin had his shot. Just choosing the team is a lot different then letting Dake get as close to 100% as possible.  Either allow the delayed wrestle off, and let him try to knock off the rust, or dont allow delayed wrestle offs.

Edited by Molsen

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I’m a big Dake fan, and I would actually be ok with him trying to get the wrestle off as late as possible and even entering a tournament before the wrestle off. He needs to do what’s best for himself, but i think the morality of it depends on the way he did it. If he really came at them with dr. notes and lawyers and said he can’t wrestle before 8/17, and then after he got that date said he is going to wrestle before that anyway, that is pretty bad. If that’s true, I will lose some respect for him 

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11 hours ago, nhs67 said:

This entire post is lol-qble.

He has proven to be our best at 79. - NON SEQUITUR

If he needs a small tourney to shake out the rust so he is closer to 100% against the world #2 in Ringer, then I am all for it. - GREAT. FORTUNATELY, THOSE ARENT THE RULES.

I want our best shot to win worlds at 79 just as I do 86 or any other weight. More world titles means better chance at a team title. Which is why I would prefer Nickal and Dake-Ringer loser face off to meet Downey. Downey could very well win that mini-tourney and shake all doubters. I don't think he would. - ME TOO AS LONG AS YOU WIN THE SPOT. OTHERWISE, WHO IS TO SAY WHO IS BEST. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE RULES.

I am more confident in a 100% Dake to beat whoever Russia sends than I am Ringer. Ringer can horse with the best of them, and may be better than everyone at the weight at that, but Dake has that extra something that pushes him over the Rooskies. - AGAIN, NO BEARING ON THE ISSUE AT HAND.

People may not have a problem with it but that's not the point. The point is it's out-and-out gaming the system if not Iying. I personally think the best recourse is that nobody gets a bye. They don't get them in track they don't get them in swimming so each year step up to the line and let it fly. May the best man that year win. If you were hurt and couldn't wrestle then you weren't the best man on that day. Same as at the worlds.

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6 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I am saying that he is doing what so many people have done before.

Why hate on him for it now?  He was hated on when he voiced all his displeasure for manipulating the system.  Now he is hating on for using the system the way it is designed, AND jumping through the proper legal loops to do so.  What is wrong here?

Assuming you're not trolling, if we have to explain to you what is wrong then I think we're wasting our time.

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This practice tourney is probably a bad idea for Dake.  I think this fiasco helps Ringer.   Plenty of tape on Ringer in the last year .   Not so much for Dake.   Ringers team may be able to identify some injury related patterns.  

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Ok my .02. I'm a BIG Dake fan. I'm from Long Island so I know the NY wrestling scene. I'm also an old guy. But I think that if Dake can wrestle in July. He should wrestle Dieringer first period.Yes Dieringer can go to the tournament too. But he shouldn't have to take a chance on getting injured. Too me it just looks like Dake is ducking.

Edited by garyc

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I'm seeing two takes on this issue that can be summed up in answers to two questions.

First, is the overall objective to send the best man most capable of winning a gold medal to the World Championship?  If you answer "yes" (as I guess most would), then you have two competitors, one a defending World Champ who was injured/not fully ready at Final X, and an extremely talented challenger with some solid credentials under his belt but no senior World Championship/Olympic experience.  USA Wrestling accepted a delay in wrestle-off appeal, and it has no rules stipulating that either man cannot compete between the acceptance of the appeal and the rescheduled wrestle-off.  Both men are taking advantage of this and doing a tune-up tournament at two separate locations, as is their right and completely within the rules as set.

Second, is it "fair" that a guy who appealed for a delay in wrestle-off is well enough to go to a tune-up tournament before the wrestle-off?  If by your definition of "fair" this is a violation of fairness, well, then you have a beef with the way the rules were written (which were not written by either competitor). If you believe this, then the idea of sending the very best man is not the job of USA Wrestling but living up to a standard of fairness established by, you got it, YOU.  And that's fine.  We can all argue about what's "fair" (Pat Downey is going to Worlds and Bo Nickal is not permitted a chance to challenge him; why? because that's the rule, fair or not).  While Ringer might be better than Dake head-to-head at this juncture, we really can't be sure until they settle it in the circle.  If it's more important to you to be "fair" (as defined by you) than to send the very best man to Worlds, then so be it.

Regardless of how you answer the above questions, the fact is that both men are exercising their rights within the established rules.  Argue for a change of rules or procedure, but to question a man's "courage" or ethics is just sour.

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17 minutes ago, Coach_J said:

I'm seeing two takes on this issue that can be summed up in answers to two questions.

First, is the overall objective to send the best man most capable of winning a gold medal to the World Championship?  If you answer "yes" (as I guess most would), then you have two competitors, one a defending World Champ who was injured/not fully ready at Final X, and an extremely talented challenger with some solid credentials under his belt but no senior World Championship/Olympic experience.  USA Wrestling accepted a delay in wrestle-off appeal, and it has no rules stipulating that either man cannot compete between the acceptance of the appeal and the rescheduled wrestle-off.  Both men are taking advantage of this and doing a tune-up tournament at two separate locations, as is their right and completely within the rules as set.

Second, is it "fair" that a guy who appealed for a delay in wrestle-off is well enough to go to a tune-up tournament before the wrestle-off?  If by your definition of "fair" this is a violation of fairness, well, then you have a beef with the way the rules were written (which were not written by either competitor). If you believe this, then the idea of sending the very best man is not the job of USA Wrestling but living up to a standard of fairness established by, you got it, YOU.  And that's fine.  We can all argue about what's "fair" (Pat Downey is going to Worlds and Bo Nickal is not permitted a chance to challenge him; why? because that's the rule, fair or not).  While Ringer might be better than Dake head-to-head at this juncture, we really can't be sure until they settle it in the circle.  If it's more important to you to be "fair" (as defined by you) than to send the very best man to Worlds, then so be it.

Regardless of how you answer the above questions, the fact is that both men are exercising their rights within the established rules.  Argue for a change of rules or procedure, but to question a man's "courage" or ethics is just sour.

Some other questions - Are those leading questions? Is it gaming the system to demand a wrestle off at barely less than the two week cutoff and then cynically compete more than 5 weeks prior to that?  Was the dude even injured?  Why is he more special than the other returning medalists who honored a system of fair play by competing at the designated time?

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