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How would you change the rule for a returning medalist that is injured?

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Curious how folks would change the rule related to a returning world medalist that is injured and can’t compete at the main date for determining the world / Olympic team member.

All ideas welcome.   But be prepared to answer some specifics given some potential edge case scenarios.

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Curious how folks would change the rule related to a returning world medalist that is injured and can’t compete at the main date for determining the world / Olympic team member.
All ideas welcome.   But be prepared to answer some specifics given some potential edge case scenarios.
Set a specific primary date that all the wrestle offs will take place at.
And a specific secondary later date, to allow time for a wrestler with a legitimate injury to recover.

If you cant make either date you dont wrestle for the spot that year.

Either way, everyones aware of the process from the get go.

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No delays. Final X dates are final. Push Final X dates closer to Worlds--perhaps a month out--to allow for as much recovery from injury as possible. If you are not well enough to compete for a spot a month before worlds, you very very likely aren't well enough to rep us at worlds.

That's probably the best. Just delay final X a little longer and you know from the get go "if you cant go by then... you cant go to worlds"

 

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I seem to remember Bill Zadick  having/faking an injury in the shower when he could not make weight. Does anyone remember the story? I believe he was not even a world medalist at the time.

 

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2 minutes ago, Martini said:

I seem to remember Bill Zadick  having/faking an injury in the shower when he could not make weight. Does anyone remember the story? I believe he was not even a world medalist at the time.

 

That was Nick Marable I believe.

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1 minute ago, spladle08 said:

That's probably the best. Just delay final X a little longer and you know from the get go "if you cant go by then... you cant go to worlds"

 

This also maximizes the likelihood that our selected team ends up competing since it's so close to Worlds. Practice or freak injuries/accidents are less likely to be impactful a month away from worlds. 

I believe this timing would work well for peaking/training cycle reasons as well. It is not uncommon to peak for a major qualifier, then peak again one final time for the most important competition within a month. This already happens at NCAAs, so all our wrestlers would be very used to it. It also happens in many major sports--probably for good physiological reason.

The downside is that you have less time to prepare for specific opponents, but that is offset by the fact that the reverse is also true: Since they don't know who our reps are until a month out, they too have less time to prepare for us.

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They have plenty of advantage of nagging injuries by sitting out the qualifiers.  Not meant for major injuries.  The final day, is the day. Be there or forfiet. Period.

Therefore no dr excuse drama.... 

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I wouldn't change anything.

USA Wrestling wants flexibility and wants to give an advantage to defending medalists. That might be unfair to challengers but it's intentionally unfair.

There's so much carping about delay decisions made within that framework based on gut feelings about "fairness" that are more emotional than grounded in any overriding principle of what makes something unfair. Not everything you dislike is unfair.

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im torn.

i like final x, mostly b/c it's partly in lincoln and b/c it gives us one more way to show off our sport.

however, im a big believer in one match... i was skeptical about final x when it started.

i mean if he pins his opponent in the first match... isn't that it... i could be down 14-2 and pin the guy and win. 

the pin ends all. that's what wrestling is about. if not, why dont they keep wrestling after a pin?

this is why i was against a series like most other sports have.

 

if you remember a few years back we had a system where you had to win each period or some such thing without a continuous score, from one period to the next...(tho a pin ended it)

most people hated it.

this is what i thought of first when told about best of 3 format.

 

a third argument... during olympic years there will NOT be final x? is this correct?

 

why not just have the open, and then WTT. the open might be used for seeding WTT/OTT

one match. everybody in. that wants to be in.

no protection. no series. be ready on the day.

 

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All you nancies are fixing to feel reeeeally cute when Dake gets him in 2.

Try explaining how Ringer deserved to go and fight for a world gold if he can't even beat the returning champ for a spot then.

Ninny-ponce. The lot of yeh.

Leave it the way it is.

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15 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

No delays. Final X dates are final. Push Final X dates closer to Worlds--perhaps a month out--to allow for as much recovery from injury as possible. If you are not well enough to compete for a spot a month before worlds, you very very likely aren't well enough to rep us at worlds.

A-fuking-men!

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15 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Do you all remember the year Burroughs won a world title after breaking his ankle? That wouldn’t have happened if we had Final X a month out and had no other options. 

Yes I do. But are we going to set our guidelines for those rare cases or for those times when things are a little more normal? There's always going to be outliers. We need a system with the least amount of bul**** possible because humans have shown that with any loopholes they'll try and take advantage of it. Here's the date where final X will be held. You wrestle then or you don't wrestle at all.

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1 hour ago, ConnorsDad said:

Yes I do. But are we going to set our guidelines for those rare cases or for those times when things are a little more normal? There's always going to be outliers. We need a system with the least amount of bul**** possible because humans have shown that with any loopholes they'll try and take advantage of it. Here's the date where final X will be held. You wrestle then or you don't wrestle at all.

Should the goal be to have the least amount of bull possible or should it be to get the best team possible? I would have hated to see Burroughs eliminated that year and it would have taken away a world championship from him and our country. I agree we want to eliminate taking advantage of the system, but my point is if you have hard set rules and dates there are cases where you will eliminate the best team member. Injuries are not as rare as you think and many cases they are completely legitimate. 

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For those suggesting FinalX being later in the year - I disagree for a few reasons 

1. Risk of injury - even the winners often have minor injuries post 2 or 3 intense matches bs high level competition. I’d prefer our World Team has some additional time if needed to heal

2. Making weight a month before worlds, at ranking tournaments, and again at worlds can give guys issues. Some guys won’t have a problem, but just look at the weights college guys go in freestyle. Do you think Micic for example would go 133 in college if consistently making weight at 125 (57kg) wasn’t an issue? He drops for freestyle because he only has to make weight occasionally. Jden in 2020, if he goes 86kg, is another great example. I highly doubt he can make weight at 86kg 3 times (plus some events two days in a row) in the space of 4-6 weeks, without doing some damage to himself. He might even go 97kg if that were the requirement. 

3. Most guys cannot peak that many times in a short period of time. Guys tend to want to peak for FinalX - asking them to then peak again a month later, and add in possibly having to peak  qualify the spot also, is detrimental to their development and performance. They aren’t wearing their body down everyday during training at this level. They have technique focused days, recovery days, etc. if you force then to keep peaking they can’t do a real training cycle each time. It will negatively impact guys at worlds.   

I think the folks suggesting the firm reschedule date for injured wrestlers is the best of both worlds. It gives returning medalists a significant advantage, as they deserve in my opinion, but also ensures the shenanigans we are seeing right now don’t occur. 

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There definitely needs to be a cutoff date and some reforms to the process, but overall it’s pretty cool that USA Wrestling is getting so stacked that even if the #1 guy in freestyle gets hurt, there’s not a lot drop off in talent if the #2 guy has to go.

Edited by pamela

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