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Askren KOed in 5 seconds

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I think the brutality of that KO may make some wrestlers change their minds about going UFC. Especially since Ben has a really strong chin and still got blasted like that. Most notably Bo Nickal. 

Edited by PRyan2012

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2 minutes ago, PRyan2012 said:

I think the brutality of that KO may make some wrestlers change their minds about going UFC. Most notably Bo Nickal. 

Possibly. It may also motivate wrestlers to focus on developing their striking skills and have a standup game instead of being a one dimensional fighter.

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14 minutes ago, PRyan2012 said:

I think the brutality of that KO may make some wrestlers change their minds about going UFC. Especially since Ben has a really strong chin and still got blasted like that. Most notably Bo Nickal. 

as a group I think most mom's would be less than enthusiastic about MMA for their kids....Bo's mom said "I don’t have any doubts about how well he’ll do in a cage fight. It’ll be bad for that other guy.” 

https://onwardstate.com/2019/04/03/penn-state-wrestlings-bo-nickal-could-be-great-at-mma/

somehow I doubt Bo (or his mom's) confidence was deflated too much by Ben going down. 

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5 minutes ago, KTG119 said:

as a group I think most mom's would be less than enthusiastic about MMA for their kids....Bo's mom said "I don’t have any doubts about how well he’ll do in a cage fight. It’ll be bad for that other guy.” 

https://onwardstate.com/2019/04/03/penn-state-wrestlings-bo-nickal-could-be-great-at-mma/

somehow I doubt Bo (or his mom's) confidence was deflated too much by Ben going down. 

Maybe not but wrestlers have been so dominate some guys like Bo think they can go right in and dominate. I am just saying there might be some more thought in to it before leaving wrestling. But I am sure the $$$ will make the final decision:-)  Imagine Bo vs Yoel Romero. I think Bo will get hurt. 

Edited by PRyan2012

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He does sound good.  Very coherent, and man enough to accept anything he got.  He knew he went pretty low to promote, and he even appreciated the perfect knee.  I get Ben.  If he feels he can fight again, I would think it would be with the stipulation that he retires immediately if he gets concussed again.  I dunno.  I can't see him fighting more than a couple more times either way.  He's upped the class of fighter and If he is not in denial, he must admit he is in "proceed with extreme caution" from here territory.  My homies remember when we used to pre NCAA tournament bet whether the majority of champions would have square or round chins.  Ben was a hot damned hall of famer in our group.  He's got a few Okies that appreciate that chin.

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I'm not a big UFC proponent. I'll follow it to see how wrestlers do. He is stepping up in class, but I believe that if he gets close enough to grapple, he'll crush most opposition. Askren doesn't like to lose. He admits it. He plays the heel well. But he's still not unlikeable. And he did a great interview.

I suspect that he will fight again and I agree that he has only a few left in him after a big concussion and at his age. The guy is a champion. He likes to compete. But now he is also a husband - and his wife might provide the most formidable opposition that he's seen yet.

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3 hours ago, misanthrope said:

He sounds good and he'll be back in the cage. 

Nickal will also be a monster.

Impossible to say until we see him in the UFC. Here's a list of some notable wrestlers who had limited success in MMA:

Lawal/Askren/Rosholt/Rosholt2/Pico/Lance Palmer/Caldwell/Honeycutt/Paul Bradley.  These are highly decorated wrestlers, and I'd say Askren is the only one who did moderately well out of the bunch, and that was just because of his ability to promote himself and make $$$ beating up scrubs.  In reality, he probably would have been out of the UFC years ago if given the chance. 

So  we won't know how Nickal fares as an MMA fighter until we actually see him give it a shot.  Too many variables beyond wrestling ability.  He could be the next Cormier/Cejudo/Woodley/Usman...Or he may be the next Rosholt.  

 

 

7 minutes ago, misanthrope said:

I'm not a big UFC proponent. I'll follow it to see how wrestlers do. He is stepping up in class, but I believe that if he gets close enough to grapple, he'll crush most opposition. Askren doesn't like to lose. He admits it. He plays the heel well. But he's still not unlikeable. And he did a great interview.

I suspect that he will fight again and I agree that he has only a few left in him after a big concussion and at his age. The guy is a champion. He likes to compete. But now he is also a husband - and his wife might provide the most formidable opposition that he's seen yet.

 

I think Colby Covington is going to beat Lawler and the match Dana makes Askren take is a rematch against Lawler.  Ben will get destroyed and that will be it for his career. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Impossible to say until we see him in the UFC. Here's a list of some notable wrestlers who had limited success in MMA:

Lawal/Askren/Rosholt/Rosholt2/Pico/Lance Palmer/Caldwell/Honeycutt/Paul Bradley.  These are highly decorated wrestlers, and I'd say Askren is the only one who did moderately well out of the bunch, and that was just because of his ability to promote himself and make $$$ beating up scrubs.  In reality, he probably would have been out of the UFC years ago if given the chance. 

So  we won't know how Nickal fares as an MMA fighter until we actually see him give it a shot.  Too many variables beyond wrestling ability.  

My gut says Nickal will be at the top if he makes the choice to pursue it. If Askren has done well, you've got to take him out of the list of guys who didn't make the transition. Pico can still do well. Why look at the guys who didn't make it as opposed to those who did?

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52 minutes ago, misanthrope said:

My gut says Nickal will be at the top if he makes the choice to pursue it. If Askren has done well, you've got to take him out of the list of guys who didn't make the transition. Pico can still do well. Why look at the guys who didn't make it as opposed to those who did?

My point of listing them is to say that Nickal may do well, but may not.  We won't know until we see him fight at a high level. I'm not predicting that he will fail, but he's no more likely to succeed than guys like Pico, Rosholt, or Askren were (And he's no less likely to succeed as Chael, Woodley, Cormier, etc).

My view on Askren is that he has done will in terms of being able to earn $$$ from smaller organizations, but he's not at the level of the top WW guys in the UFC (he's 1-1 and realistically should be 0-2 but was fortunate in getting the stoppage against Lawler). For all the hype he generated, it has been a very disappointing MMA career in terms of actual results.  

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3 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Impossible to say until we see him in the UFC. Here's a list of some notable wrestlers who had limited success in MMA:

Lawal/Askren/Rosholt/Rosholt2/Pico/Lance Palmer/Caldwell/Honeycutt/Paul Bradley.  These are highly decorated wrestlers, and I'd say Askren is the only one who did moderately well out of the bunch, and that was just because of his ability to promote himself and make $$$ beating up scrubs.  In reality, he probably would have been out of the UFC years ago if given the chance.

Well, what is limited success in mma, when you fight in one of the top promotions? Like Ufc, bellator, strikeforce, pfl or rizin? Palmer won the first pfl tournament and 1 million dollar, Lawal was strikeforce and rizin champion and the heavyweight Rosholt had an good run in the Ufc but was cut because of his style 

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1 hour ago, Graverobber said:

Well, what is limited success in mma, when you fight in one of the top promotions? Like Ufc, bellator, strikeforce, pfl or rizin? Palmer won the first pfl tournament and 1 million dollar, Lawal was strikeforce and rizin champion and the heavyweight Rosholt had an good run in the Ufc but was cut because of his style 

I'd define success as being a top fighter in the UFC (not necessarily champ, but at least earning a title fight or being in the UFC for a number of years). If he stayed in wrestling, Nickal would be near the top in the 2024/2028 cycles for world/olympic teams.  So for Nickal to be successful in the MMA, I'd define it as competing for world titles.   I have no doubt that any top wrestler can go and win secondary promotions like Bellator and whatever PFL is, but there's a huge jump in talent between those and the UFC. There's no way to know a priori if somebody is going to be able to achieve that level of success, no matter what accolades he has had in wrestling. 

 

And if you want to make an argument that all of these guys are successful because they're making a living fighting in secondary promotions, that's fine. But nobody knows who any of them are, while guys like Cormier/Cejudo/Woodley are on a different level-a level that is much more difficult to achieve and not guaranteed for anybody.

Edited by Billyhoyle

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9 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

I'd define success as being a top fighter in the UFC (not necessarily champ, but at least earning a title fight or being in the UFC for a number of years). If he stayed in wrestling, Nickal would be near the top in the 2024/2028 cycles for world/olympic teams.  So for Nickal to be successful in the MMA, I'd define it as competing for world titles.   I have no doubt that any top wrestler can go and win secondary promotions like Bellator and whatever PFL is, but there's a huge jump in talent between those and the UFC. There's no way to know a priori if somebody is going to be able to achieve that level of success, no matter what accolades he has had in wrestling. 

 

And if you want to make an argument that all of these guys are successful because they're making a living fighting in secondary promotions, we can just agree to disagree on that.  

I can understand your point and agree with it on several terms. In case of bo nickal, I agree with you, anything but Ufc and maybe titleshots would be disappointing. 

I think, if you can make it to the top in secondary promotions like strikeforce or even bellator, you are still a successful mma fighter and could be a top 15 guy in the Ufc. Best example is gegard mousasi, he lost his last fight against Lovato but I would still consider him a top 10 guy or even more if he stayed in the Ufc. 

Wasn't on my mind to make an argument about this whole topic, just wanted to share my thoughts and opinions about it :) 

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That was a classy interview by Ben and to me it was a big relief to see him ok and answering questions less than 2 days after that KO.

As disappointed as I was with the result against Masvidal it was really refreshing to hear his attitude in that interview.

You still da man Ben! 

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Haha, Askren is the best and I'm glad he's taking it all in stride and feeling OK right now.

However, feeling fine now doesn't mean that he hasn't suffered from a serious traumatic brain injury: https://www.bu.edu/cte/about/frequently-asked-questions/

"The symptoms of CTE include memory loss, confusion, impaired judgment, impulse control problems, aggression, depression, anxiety, suicidality, parkinsonism, and, eventually, progressive dementia. These changes in the brain can begin months, years, or even decades after the last brain trauma or end of active athletic involvement."

Askren is so charismatic, I wish he'd consider becoming a combat sports analyst where he could make a living without running the risk of ruining the insides of that noggin of his.

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20 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

My point of listing them is to say that Nickal may do well, but may not.  We won't know until we see him fight at a high level. I'm not predicting that he will fail, but he's no more likely to succeed than guys like Pico, Rosholt, or Askren were (And he's no less likely to succeed as Chael, Woodley, Cormier, etc).

My view on Askren is that he has done will in terms of being able to earn $$$ from smaller organizations, but he's not at the level of the top WW guys in the UFC (he's 1-1 and realistically should be 0-2 but was fortunate in getting the stoppage against Lawler). For all the hype he generated, it has been a very disappointing MMA career in terms of actual results.  

Personally I think that Askren is at a high level. It looked like Lawler tapped to me. This last fight looked like long odds to land that knee, but it would have knocked anyone out. If Ben is more cautious, he avoids the KO and gets a boring win. But he still wins.

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As far as defending the flying knee (and Masvidal got a pretty good running start on this one), a poster on the college forum suggested defending the flying knee with (paraphrasing) a pivot, a throw by, or lateral drop. I am intrigued by the aforementioned wrestling counters against a flying knee. Would love to see the lateral drop version. Not being sarcastic here. 

I know, it's mma and not straight up wrestling, but still would be rad if Mike could hit something like this on Behind the Dirt. A throw by, or even cooler, a lateral drop wrestling counter to the flying knee?   :D 

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The only real surprise is how fast he was knocked out. Not that it happened.

Wrestlers coming in low for a takedown lead with the head. Positioned just right for a good Uppercut or the Knee as happened here. Even a good straight punch to the top of the head could lay them out - especially when an opponent knows it will be coming.

Watch top pro boxers. Look at the reaction time and how they take advantage of any opening while footwork enables them to be in position to maximize punching ability. Then top MMA guys who drill with even more weapons. Scouting Askren one can see his go to takedown moves. All that funk is after he is on the mat. Flatten him before it happens and it is over, as happened here.

His moving in, directly into the power of the knee - he's lucky he didn't end up paralyzed or dead.

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15 hours ago, misanthrope said:

Personally I think that Askren is at a high level. It looked like Lawler tapped to me. This last fight looked like long odds to land that knee, but it would have knocked anyone out. If Ben is more cautious, he avoids the KO and gets a boring win. But he still wins.

Lawler tapped? lolwut 

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On 7/8/2019 at 4:24 PM, Ultimatepip said:

 

Great interview, pure class from Ben, a true stand-up guy. A great example of how to handle yourself after defeat. Surprisingly humorous and a few pretty fantastic quotes:

"Apparently, I guess I set a record of some sort."

"If you calculate my pay-per-hour due to the 5 second knockout, it's pretty fantastic."

"Sometimes life doesn't go your way, sometimes you get your a$$ kicked, sometimes you lose. You don't have to like it, but you gotta accept it."

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On 7/7/2019 at 8:40 PM, Peso said:

I have a huge appreciation for what these athletes do.  I believe those guys are underpaid about 100X their value, and I'm absolutely fascinated with the amazing technique and strategies these warriors  bring.   But let's face it if Masvidal did what he did anywhere else in the world, that would have been attempted murder.  I like mma, but don't love it because of that one thing that I've never seen in sport before.  Where they almost always attack a defenseless man.  I understand that forces the official to stop it, but...that's too much for me.

This ^

mspart

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