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Askren KOed in 5 seconds

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7 minutes ago, Wrestlingfan25 said:

Nick suriano and bo nickal will both become ufc champions in my opinion

Bold predictions. Would Nick have to go through Henry Cejudo to claim a title at his current weight? What do you think about some of the other elite wrestlers who might have an interest in MMA (Snyder, Cox, JO, Cassar)?

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On 7/7/2019 at 5:21 PM, Graverobber said:

Totally agree, but not every fighter will be a champion, that's life. I think still he could win a couple of fights in the Ufc, maybe not the top guys but what about fighters like Neil magny, Kevin Lee or even Demian Maia (tbh, if Maia can't get the takedown it will be an ugly striking match)? I definitely would watch any of these matchups and I hope he sticks around for at least one or two fights. 

Maia could be next. I would totally pay whatever to see that fight.

Edited by Katie

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12 hours ago, Katie said:

Maia could be next. I would totally pay whatever to see that fight.

Mr. Maia won't get the takedown, but is a killer off his back.  I'm not sure it is a great matchup for Ben.

And in sad news, a boxer just died from injuries sustained in the ring... in a fight that was stopped against his wishes by his corner in between rounds.  Those  16 oz gloves!

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6 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Mr. Maia won't get the takedown, but is a killer off his back.  I'm not sure it is a great matchup for Ben.

And in sad news, a boxer just died from injuries sustained in the ring... in a fight that was stopped against his wishes by his corner in between rounds.  Those  16 oz gloves!

And here is a list of deaths from MMA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests

Don’t run a victory lap about how you were right based off of a tragic event.  Nobody here has said boxing is safe and if you want to prove it’s more dangerous than MMA, you need to identify a long term study that compares brain injury from the two sport and normalizes for the total number of matches.  You have yet to produce such a study, as to my knowledge one has not been published, so it is impossible to argue whether one sport is more dangerous than the other. 

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29 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

And here is a list of deaths from MMA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests

Don’t run a victory lap about how you were right based off of a tragic event.  Nobody here has said boxing is safe and if you want to prove it’s more dangerous than MMA, you need to identify a long term study that compares brain injury from the two sport and normalizes for the total number of matches.  You have yet to produce such a study, as to my knowledge one has not been published, so it is impossible to argue whether one sport is more dangerous than the other. 

No victory lap.  I'm saddened.

Also...I stopped reading the list when a came across a death from weight cutting.  But I did not find one death from a man who was concious when he left the fight, like the boxer was on Friday night.

Edited by AHamilton

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7 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Mr. Maia won't get the takedown, but is a killer off his back.  I'm not sure it is a great matchup for Ben.

And in sad news, a boxer just died from injuries sustained in the ring... in a fight that was stopped against his wishes by his corner in between rounds.  Those  16 oz gloves!

Well, at least nobody has to worry Ben will get more braindamage in this match up. I think he will win this by decision, so many good wrestlers were able to beat Maia and if askren sticks to the same gameplan, I see him winning.

Rest in peace to the boxer :( I saw it today in the news... roundabout 260 strikes to the head. The coach did the right thing in stopping him from continuing the fight but unfortunately it was to late. 

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16 minutes ago, Graverobber said:

Well, at least nobody has to worry Ben will get more braindamage in this match up. I think he will win this by decision, so many good wrestlers were able to beat Maia and if askren sticks to the same gameplan, I see him winning.

Rest in peace to the boxer :( I saw it today in the news... roundabout 260 strikes to the head. The coach did the right thing in stopping him from continuing the fight but unfortunately it was to late. 

THe problem with the Maia fight is that Ben is better at takedowns and Maia might be better at every other area of grappling.  And being on bottom does not bother him.

 

The other wrestlers were able to defeat him by avoiding takedowns and outstriking him.  Ben will not outstrike him, and regardless of that, it would be the worst display of striking in UFC history.  This could turn into a BJJ match and that does not favor Ben.  The best that Ben could hope for would be to get a bunch of takedowns and lay and pray, because Maia is dangerous on bottom.  That would be the best strategy.

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Point 1. Masvidal is a former wrestler. His coach Mike Brown is a former wrestler and his best friend (Yoel Romero) Is an international level wrestler.

 

Point 2. Six (or 7?) of eight UFC titleholders have Wrestling background. Nurmagomedov like a lot of freestyle/greco wrestlers from Russia has an advantage. He has also Pankration experience. Pankration is very strong in Russia. It is mma. This style is under UWW.

 

Point 3. Askren was a champion in two different mma federation with two different rulesets. He was undefeated. But now he is 36...

 

 

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How does Ben beat Maia? Those other wrestlers all had a striking advantage and could stop the takedown and just strike with him. Askren can stop the takedown but he is one of the few guys who Maia has  better striking than. In a sense you could even argue that it is a nightmare matchup for Askren.

Will be an interesting fight. 

Edited by Shiraz123

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On 7/24/2019 at 6:38 PM, Billyhoyle said:

And here is a list of deaths from MMA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests

Don’t run a victory lap about how you were right based off of a tragic event.  Nobody here has said boxing is safe and if you want to prove it’s more dangerous than MMA, you need to identify a long term study that compares brain injury from the two sport and normalizes for the total number of matches.  You have yet to produce such a study, as to my knowledge one has not been published, so it is impossible to argue whether one sport is more dangerous than the other. 

Sadly, football, boxing, and MMA are all pretty bad for brain health. 

Much respect to Dadashev.

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On 7/24/2019 at 6:38 PM, Billyhoyle said:

And here is a list of deaths from MMA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests

Don’t run a victory lap about how you were right based off of a tragic event.  Nobody here has said boxing is safe and if you want to prove it’s more dangerous than MMA, you need to identify a long term study that compares brain injury from the two sport and normalizes for the total number of matches.  You have yet to produce such a study, as to my knowledge one has not been published, so it is impossible to argue whether one sport is more dangerous than the other. 

Where's your study that proves MMA is more dangerous than boxing?

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On 7/8/2019 at 11:15 AM, PRyan2012 said:

I think the brutality of that KO may make some wrestlers change their minds about going UFC. Especially since Ben has a really strong chin and still got blasted like that. Most notably Bo Nickal. 

C'mon man. If you're going the MMA route, you've seen plenty of fights before and plenty of scary KOs. It's nothing new nor is it something to dissuade someone who's already interested. 

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On 7/26/2019 at 5:36 PM, PSUMike said:

C'mon man. If you're going the MMA route, you've seen plenty of fights before and plenty of scary KOs. It's nothing new nor is it something to dissuade someone who's already interested. 

I agree with you man. I wrote this right after the fight. Was in shock. All good now. It was a unique, fast and brutal KO....fastest ever. At the time I didn't know Ben was ok. But that was so unique that it could have dissuaded many from trying it. I know many wrestlers who are on the fence about going this route. Many decide getting knocked out like this is not something they want :-)  

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Ben made 250k for his loss to Masvidal.  He made that against Lawler, and will make that against Maia.  Thats 750k in a year.  For those saying he needs to hang it up, cut it out.  Thats a ton of money.  How many years would it take to garner that wrestling?  Its not even guaranteed in wrestling.  Why more guys dont go the MMA route amazes me.  You can take a huge risk for peanuts, even lose money wrestling, or go get guaranteed money and still compete. 

Let me ask you this:  How many firefighters, cops, or first responders do we have on this board?  How many of us know one?  If that person isnt top 5 in the world at being a cop or fireman, should they just hang it up and pursue something else, or do they have the right to willingly enter a dangerous profession to earn a living for their family?  How many of us on this board can legitimately even say we are elite at anything we do in our lives?  Why dont we hold ourselves to the same standards? 

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Ben made 250k for his loss to Masvidal.  He made that against Lawler, and will make that against Maia.  Thats 750k in a year.  For those saying he needs to hang it up, cut it out.  Thats a ton of money.  How many years would it take to garner that wrestling?  Its not even guaranteed in wrestling.  Why more guys dont go the MMA route amazes me.  You can take a huge risk for peanuts, even lose money wrestling, or go get guaranteed money and still compete. 
Let me ask you this:  How many firefighters, cops, or first responders do we have on this board?  How many of us know one?  If that person isnt top 5 in the world at being a cop or fireman, should they just hang it up and pursue something else, or do they have the right to willingly enter a dangerous profession to earn a living for their family?  How many of us on this board can legitimately even say we are elite at anything we do in our lives?  Why dont we hold ourselves to the same standards? 
https://www.sharonherald.com/news/local_news/billion-in-gas-taxes-diverted-to-state-police-pa-auditor/article_e9b82f67-b82c-5ce7-a85d-9364f8de564e.html

Let's face it. Work is dangerous.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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10 hours ago, olddirty said:

Ben made 250k for his loss to Masvidal.  He made that against Lawler, and will make that against Maia.  Thats 750k in a year.  For those saying he needs to hang it up, cut it out.  Thats a ton of money.  How many years would it take to garner that wrestling?  Its not even guaranteed in wrestling.  Why more guys dont go the MMA route amazes me.  You can take a huge risk for peanuts, even lose money wrestling, or go get guaranteed money and still compete. 

Let me ask you this:  How many firefighters, cops, or first responders do we have on this board?  How many of us know one?  If that person isnt top 5 in the world at being a cop or fireman, should they just hang it up and pursue something else, or do they have the right to willingly enter a dangerous profession to earn a living for their family?  How many of us on this board can legitimately even say we are elite at anything we do in our lives?  Why dont we hold ourselves to the same standards? 

750K isn’t going to reverse CTE. At this point he will make a lot of money coaching without the risk of brain injury. Fighting beyond when somebody should is absolutely stupid and he has taken more damage in each of his last two fights than the rest of his career combined. He wanted to find out if he is one of the best in the world, which we all can respect. After two fights, it’s clear that he isn’t and his style doesn’t translate to the top level. Time to hang them up. 

On 7/25/2019 at 7:06 PM, AHamilton said:

Where's your study that proves MMA is more dangerous than boxing?

My point is that we don’t know which is more dangerous than the other. So until a study comes out to back up your claims, there’s nothing to support your belief that boxing is worse than mma. I think both are very dangerous, and we don’t yet know which is worse. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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1 hour ago, Mphillips said:

Current history leans towards one over the other. No?

... and another boxer dead from injuries suffered inn the ring.  Thats two in a week.

 

16 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

750K isn’t going to reverse CTE. At this point he will make a lot of money coaching without the risk of brain injury. Fighting beyond when somebody should is absolutely stupid and he has taken more damage in each of his last two fights than the rest of his career combined. He wanted to find out if he is one of the best in the world, which we all can respect. After two fights, it’s clear that he isn’t and his style doesn’t translate to the top level. Time to hang them up. 

My point is that we don’t know which is more dangerous than the other. So until a study comes out to back up your claims, there’s nothing to support your belief that boxing is worse than mma. I think both are very dangerous, and we don’t yet know which is worse. 

I lean to the one where nearly the entirety of the sport involves being punched in the head.  In matches and in training. No takedowns or subs to work on.  Also much longer amateur careers involving punches to the noggin.

 

As far as CTE...; the flying knee likely didn't give it.  As the study I posted earlier showed, CTE is likely caused by repetitive sub-concussive blows.  Askren had a TBI, but unlikely linked to CTE.

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On 7/28/2019 at 3:00 PM, olddirty said:

Ben made 250k for his loss to Masvidal.  He made that against Lawler, and will make that against Maia.  Thats 750k in a year.  For those saying he needs to hang it up, cut it out.  Thats a ton of money.  How many years would it take to garner that wrestling?  Its not even guaranteed in wrestling.  Why more guys dont go the MMA route amazes me.  You can take a huge risk for peanuts, even lose money wrestling, or go get guaranteed money and still compete. 

Let me ask you this:  How many firefighters, cops, or first responders do we have on this board?  How many of us know one?  If that person isnt top 5 in the world at being a cop or fireman, should they just hang it up and pursue something else, or do they have the right to willingly enter a dangerous profession to earn a living for their family?  How many of us on this board can legitimately even say we are elite at anything we do in our lives?  Why dont we hold ourselves to the same standards? 

If I were Askren, I would retire from MMA because I would want to protect my brain.

(Of course, I would never consider sports like MMA, boxing, and football in the first place.)

That said, it’s obviously Askren’s decision to make. My opinion is irrelevant.

Edited by Katie

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4 hours ago, AHamilton said:

... and another boxer dead from injuries suffered inn the ring.  Thats two in a week.

 

I lean to the one where nearly the entirety of the sport involves being punched in the head.  In matches and in training. No takedowns or subs to work on.  Also much longer amateur careers involving punches to the noggin.

 

As far as CTE...; the flying knee likely didn't give it.  As the study I posted earlier showed, CTE is likely caused by repetitive sub-concussive blows.  Askren had a TBI, but unlikely linked to CTE.

Ok, but that’s not a comparative study. I provided you with a list of deaths in MMA as well-that list doesn’t prove that MMA is more dangerous. Btw-you need to work on your ability to interpret studies. The study you linked showed that sub-concussive blows can cause CTE, but it is also known that TBIs from concussions cause CTE as well. Members of the military who get a single TBI from something like an IED can get CTE. 

 

Your study was not a comparison between sub concussive blows and brain trauma, but rather showed that sub concussive blows can cause CTE. The reason that was a novel finding is that prior to it, it was thought that only concussive blows can cause CTE. So your conclusion that boxing is worse has no evidence. 

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Here's a comparative study: Your MMA death study listed an MMA death from weight cutting. That is when I stopped reading. It was also a Wiki page, mine was a medical journal.  YOU need to work on your ability to interpret studies.

Here's another comparative study: Two deaths from boxing last week.  Zero from MMA.

 

Let me explain again:  Boxers generally start young and punch each other in the head repeatedly over their whole career.  They spar with head blows more than MMA fighters, and they do it more often, over a longer period of time.  There is no wrestling or submissions.  For every Micky Ward who incapacitates guys with body blows, there are way more boxers who try to damage the other guys brain.  Ghat is the #1 objective of the sport.  

If you can't see that boxers get hit in the head MORE, therefore it is MORE dangerous, then you Sir  are merely a troll.

 

Good day, Sir.

 

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