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Good article.

 

As for Brands, maybe he didn't answer the question the way the author wanted it to be answered, hence "thin excuse..."?

 

Perhaps he should have told him that Iowa already had Charlie Falck in the room and wouldn't need a projected 125 (from a non-power State - despite winning NHSCAs at a low weight) for another year or so? Was Falck already an AA the year Robles graduated HS - or did he do it that year and the next? Maybe he did state that type of "thin" excuse.

 

Regardless, he was on the podium and the guy that replaced him (McDonough) has actually had a better college career than the excellent one Robles had.

 

Even if he did lose to Robles in the finals.

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In that case, you could write to him to find out what exactly were these thin excuses and let us know.

 

Better be careful though, since its clear he's a guy just out to pick fights! :shock:

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In that case, you could write to him to find out what exactly were these thin excuses and let us know.

 

But be careful, since he's a guy who is just out there trying to pick fights with calm, innocent people! ;)

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the writers intention was to make not one but two coaches look bad for absolutely no reason at all. It's quite obvious what he was doing here..

 

Smith didn't come out of that article looking bad at all.

I fully believe the writers intention was to make Smith look bad as well. Here is the the part of the article speaking of Smith..

 

 

Last year I chased down John Smith, a two-time Olympic gold medalist and Oklahoma State's head coach since 1992, to ask him why, for heaven's sake, he hadn't recruited Robles to Stillwater. I reminded him that Robles had won a high school national championship after wrestling for just three and a half years. "We ended up not going that route," Smith drawled, looking sheepish. "It was a mistake. I shoulda went that route."

 

In the first line, "why , for heavens sake, he hadn't recruited Robles." Are you kidding me? Some writer is going to question a top notch college coach like that? Why do you think this writer put that line in? He wanted the reader to think coach didn't recruit him because of his disability and that even he, a writer would have recruited Robles while coach was not smart of enough himself.

 

The second line, "I reminded him that Robles had won a national championship after wrestling three and a half years". Here we go again. Some writer thinks he needs to remind a top notch college coach of Robles accomplishments? No, the writer knows full well Smith knew of Robles accomplishments. He only threw that part in to give the reader more thought that this coach passed on Robles because of his disability in turn intentionally or not making Smith look bad while propping up the story that Robles had to overcome coaches dismissing him because of his disability.

 

Lastly, the writer says Smith looked "sheepishly" while answering his questions. What does this insinuate? Could the writer have said said this to make it seem that Smith passed on Robles because of his disability and was embarrassed to say as much. If you ask me..yes.. that's exactly what the writer was trying to convey.

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Wow, what a great read. I hope I get a chance to meet Anthony at some point. Would love to shake his hand, look him in the eye, and say 'well done and keep on doing what you are doing.' (or something like that).

 

Great job by the writer. He isn't a typical writer who seeks to be completely removed from the subject. The write wore some of his own emotions on his sleeve. That's pretty cool. Perhaps not something that should be done often for a 'pure journalist' but we all know this writer isn't that.

 

Bravo all around.

[this board has some hypersensitive knee-jerk defensive types]

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Really a top notch article. Thank you for posting.

 

What's interesting to me is that the psychiatrist/author was able to put both Brands and Smith on the defensive about not recruiting this kid.

 

Whereas, in fact, it's a non-issue.

 

Because, bottom line, when you're recruiting high school juniors -- even if you have the pick of the litter as you do when you're Oklahoma State or University of Iowa -- it's a projection, which is why neither of those schools, dominant as they are, have never had 10 national champions.

 

In other words, neither John Smith nor Tom Brands every time out signed the kid who 6-7 years later was gonna' be the best at his weight as a college senior.

 

But, here's the thing -- no one expects them to.

 

If they field a team where 2-3 kids they signed end up first at their respective weights, and another 4-5 kids finish in the top eight at their respective weights, they win a national championship and they're geniuses.

 

Like all of of us, they're judged on the body of their decision-making, and not on one kid here or there that they didn't sign.

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When it comes to Robles I'll say what I've always said, Damn hard trying to take a wrestler down when he's already down.

 

:o i'll say what i've always said, i'll bet you can't stop his tilt and he'd tech. your behind in 1:43 :lol:

 

When your 125# wrestling a kid with the upper body of a 149#, DUH.

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Is anyone else feeling a bit queasy over the direction of this thread? I mean, it began as one sharing an article (quite well-written) praising the sport and describing one particular athlete's efforts to succeed in it despite remarkable challenges (both social and physical) rarely encountered by other participants. Now, two pages of postings later, it has devolved into attacking the writer's intent as a means of supporting/explaining/defending one coach's reactions. Tempest in a teapot? Damn, I hope so, 'cuz that feeling in my gut is waaayy too much like the one I've gotten from reading fan comments (usually from disgruntled former Mountain Hawks) unwilling/unable to accept the present and future directions of their program. No matter what location of a program or how much I admire its legacy, historical and current individual wrestlers and coaches, such denigrations help NO one and, inevitably, make me feel like puking......Thankfully, action on the mats should soon focus more appropriately attentions away from these absurd distractions.

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Wow, what a great read. I hope I get a chance to meet Anthony at some point. Would love to shake his hand, look him in the eye, and say 'well done and keep on doing what you are doing.' (or something like that).

 

Great job by the writer. He isn't a typical writer who seeks to be completely removed from the subject. The write wore some of his own emotions on his sleeve. That's pretty cool. Perhaps not something that should be done often for a 'pure journalist' but we all know this writer isn't that.

 

Bravo all around.

[this board has some hypersensitive knee-jerk defensive types]

 

 

I agree. Great article about wrestling. Go back to my first post where I cut and pasted The Scramble". I've never seen it put that well with the printed words. Beautiful.

 

BFD !!! A tiny portion of the article was about the Coaches missing on a recruit. The other 98% was just great stuff.

 

This board definitely has some hypersensitive knee-jerk defensive types

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Is anyone else feeling a bit queasy over the direction of this thread? I mean, it began as one sharing an article (quite well-written) praising the sport and describing one particular athlete's efforts to succeed in it despite remarkable challenges (both social and physical) rarely encountered by other participants. Now, two pages of postings later, it has devolved into attacking the writer's intent as a means of supporting/explaining/defending one coach's reactions. Tempest in a teapot? Damn, I hope so, 'cuz that feeling in my gut is waaayy too much like the one I've gotten from reading fan comments (usually from disgruntled former Mountain Hawks) unwilling/unable to accept the present and future directions of their program. No matter what location of a program or how much I admire its legacy, historical and current individual wrestlers and coaches, such denigrations help NO one and, inevitably, make me feel like puking......Thankfully, action on the mats should soon focus more appropriately attentions away from these absurd distractions.

 

Sure, but the it feels like the "I hate McDonough" thread was sooooo long ago.

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He also doesnt say when he asked Smith or Brands this question. What if it was right after the 125 lbs final that night with McDonough right next to him when this guy asked Brands? How would Smith respond to the same question right after his wrestler was beaten by Robles with the kid right next to him?

 

Too many people believe everything that they read or hear.

 

I believe in the article, he says he asked them the following year at NCAA's.

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Remember, people, this article is on deadspin.com. This is a website devoted to making athletes and sports programs look bad (e.g. Manti T'eo, Patrick Kane, etc., etc.). The fact that they did an article on college wrestling at all is surprising. The fact that the article shows wrestling and Robles in an unquestionably positive light is downright shocking.

 

Agreed that the journalistic standards are not at the professional level. Also agreed that the digs at Brands are only 2% of the story and almost irrelevant. The only reason I posted this article is because it gave some insights into the personal/family side of Robles' life and struggles that I hadn't heard before.

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I thought this to be one of the best wrestling articles I've ever read. Very knowledgeable, and the parts that aren't perfect are instantly forgiveable.

 

This writer is terrific.

 

As far as the Brands and Smith references in the article, they are interesting, and probably in character for what most people already thing about each of them. Its not a big part of the story. The more interesting and unexplored aspect would be why did Drexel or even ASU bother to offer anything. Who was the coach at Drexel at that time?

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I had the privilege of getting to know Anthony Robles the day after the announcement to drop ASU wrestling was made by Lisa Love, the then AD at ASU. I was at a local USA freestyle tournament in the Phoenix area. Unbeknowst to me the mother of one of the kids i was coaching was one of the best friends of a local TV reporter who showed up. This woman saw her friend and asked her who to talk to. I was introduced to her, she wanted a live interview. I said wait here, i found Anthony Robles, borrowed a "Save ASU Wrestling T-Shirt" for him to wear for the interview.

 

Earlier in his high school career i had watched a wrestler from Sunnyside HS (perennial power in AZ) beat Anthony in a freestyle meet beat him. He circled towards the leg Anthony has, then shot across it, driving him onto his far hip with no problem. The reason being Anthony had no leg to post with on the farside.

 

Later in his college career Charlie Falck 125-pound Iowa wrestler got behind by a big margin. In the third period, Falck started doing what the sunnyside wrestler had done. He took him down, turned him multiple times and won narrowly.

 

Later i moved back to Oklahoma, where i got to know Joey Fio the sophomore 125 pounder for OU. I knew that OU would wrestle In Tempe. I asked him how he had fared the first time, he said not well. I told him what i had seen done twice to Anthony Robles when he lost martches. Joey had a real good outside fireman's carry. I told him if you circle to the leg and can get his far arm you can put him on his back. I wasn't at the match, but i saw Joey won by a fall in the first period. Joey told me it was easy once he knew what to look for.

 

Now Tom Brands coached Charlie Falck, why didn't he study the film of the Robles vs. Falck match? McDonough took the completely wrong approach by staying straight head to head with Anthony.

 

Jack Spates had film of Fio pinning Robles. Apparently he didn't study film either as Jarrod Patterson lost to Anthony. In Jarrod's defense he had Anthony in position to score a takedown if he could grab the other leg. Big problem there was no other leg to grab.

 

Under the current FILA freestyle rules the only way to get on top is to take someone down. Trust me, the Russians would have studied film and figured out how to beat Anthony. So i think he made the right choice.

 

The ASU coach Thom Ortiz didn't want Anthony Robles either. However, a close friend of mine who had been an assistant at ASU a long time ago had coached Bobby Williams, Anthony's high school coach. When he found out Ortiz didn't want Anthony, he made a call and read him the riot act. He said he is a 4.0 gpa, you can't buy the kind of PR he'll give your program, and too boot he's a good wrestler.

 

I remember Lewboo saying to some of us after his freshman year at the NCAAs that he thought Anthony could win a NCAA title. I didn't laugh, because Lewboo is rarely wrong when it comes to wrestling.

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Just like other wrestlers learned Anthony's weakness so did Anthony. I'm sure him and his coaches were studying the same film learning how they could defend that attack.

 

This is what separates the great college wrestlers from the average ones. All of these guys stuff was amazing in high school but then they got to college and good guys are stopping them. The great ones adjusted and the average ones didnt.

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I gave two examples of College wrestlers using a similar method to attack him. When McDonough didn't try that approach i thought Brands did a lousy job of coaching. The three Hall of Fame coaches I learned most of my wrestling from would have studied a lot of film on Robles if they'd had a wrestler who needed to beat him.

 

I am glad Anthony won the NCAAs, but some lousy coaching was done by some opposing coaches.

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Very good article.

 

The beauty of Robles is that he constantly overcame obstacles through hard work and dedication. It's a cliche but it still works.

 

I've had a few very small Robles type moments in my life. They're humbling and remind you of how much one can accomplish simply by working hard and sticking with a task.

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That was a good read. I agree that the writer is definitely asking some loaded questions to which there is really no good answer. However, I think Brands probably could and should have said something less bad than that.

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Remember, people, this article is on deadspin.com. This is a website devoted to making athletes and sports programs look bad (e.g. Manti T'eo, Patrick Kane, etc., etc.). The fact that they did an article on college wrestling at all is surprising. The fact that the article shows wrestling and Robles in an unquestionably positive light is downright shocking.

 

Agreed that the journalistic standards are not at the professional level. Also agreed that the digs at Brands are only 2% of the story and almost irrelevant. The only reason I posted this article is because it gave some insights into the personal/family side of Robles' life and struggles that I hadn't heard before.

For the most part I agree. However, I wouldn't say his journalistic standards are substandard. The article is well-written and his professional background makes him better-suited than the average journalist to provide insights into Robles' personal life struggles. As to his conversations with others,

I'd assume he's as competent as a reporter to objectively describe what was said, as well as the participants' demeanors - probably better at analyzing the latter (again due to his background).

 

Maybe he set out to do a hit-job on Smith and Brands, but I don't see any real evidence of that - just speculation. IMO, Smith doesn't really come off looking bad. And, while Brands is characterized as irascible, that's consistent with what others have observed in the past (as well as what Brands has said about himself).

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