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2 hours ago, tbert said:

More of a chance for a second match rematch than third.  Nobody in their right mind is going to change an official score to award the win to another team/competitor. 

They already did.  Must have been out of their minds, like you say.

Edited by red blades

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6 hours ago, tbert said:

After match one final x   you could say the same about Zain.   Nothing in that last match told me yanni was going to win all futures. Zain took him down virtually uncontested. The rest I can agree.  

Zain had an excellent game plan  at final x against yanni. Yanni made adjustments at Dogu.Other than the lawyer angle, Tthat's another reason I am against a do over. Favors Yanni as he had a chance for adjustments against a good plan by Zain @ finalx.

Other than that, I dont care.

Zain has had way more time to fully train for freestyle and given that his Senior international results haven't produced. Yianni will pull away. Only time will tell but the ceiling and odds favor him for now on.

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I have watched these 2 wrestle some years now. As I see it Zain's muscles are a bit memory locked into Folkstyle. He needs more time. Yanni seems to be there now. 

Their matches hinge on only 1 or 2 moves. An enjoyable toss up for now. 

 

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1 minute ago, Sublime607 said:

Zain has had way more time to fully train for freestyle and given that his Senior international results haven't produced. Yianni will pull away. Only time will tell but the ceiling and odds favor him for now on.

Without doubt Yanni sports a better freestyle resume.   How much international experience has Zain actually had?  Took Dake and Taylor awhile to find their groove.

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To be fair, dake and Taylor both just got beat out by superior wrestlers for years. Zain has only gone to worlds once but didn't do much of anything. I really believe he is metcalf 2.0. Solid and could get some wins over solid guys but will never make it to the podium at worlds

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9 minutes ago, Perry said:

To be fair, dake and Taylor both just got beat out by superior wrestlers for years. Zain has only gone to worlds once but didn't do much of anything. I really believe he is metcalf 2.0. Solid and could get some wins over solid guys but will never make it to the podium at worlds

Zain and Metcalf are good examples of what could of been had they been able to spend the ages of 15-23 focused on freestyle, in my opinion. 

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11 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Zain and Metcalf are good examples of what could of been had they been able to spend the ages of 15-23 focused on freestyle, in my opinion. 

Yes, we are lucky that JB, Synder, Green, Cox, Taylor, Dake, etc. focused 100% on freestyle from ages 15-23 so they could become world medalwinners. 

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I wasn’t talking about those individuals. I was talking about Zain and Metcalf. Admitingly it’s way too early to put Zain any category he’s got a long way ahead and could haul in some medals. Just saying I can see the comparison. 

Edited by Lurker

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What's the diff between them and JB, Snyder, etc. though? It might just be that Zain and Metcalf's (and Howe and Ramos and Downey) physical advantages and wrestling style don't translate well from folk to free, no matter how much they train. And it's not like Zain and Brent had zero exposure to freestyle during those formative years.

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58 minutes ago, tbert said:

Without doubt Yanni sports a better freestyle resume.   How much international experience has Zain actually had?  Took Dake and Taylor awhile to find their groove.

Zain has a 2012 Cadet world title so he's been familiar with Freestyle for some time. In folkstyle I would favor Zain but freestyle its Yianni it's not a knock against either. style just suits one better than the other.

Edited by Sublime607

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6 hours ago, tbert said:

More of a chance for a second match rematch than third.  Nobody in their right mind is going to change an official score to award the win to another team/competitor. 

agreed. i'm not even sure if reversing the decision in Match 2 is permissible. whatever chance team yianni has of winning the arbitration, i think the best hope is needing to go 2-0 for the spot to go to worlds.

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2 hours ago, pamela said:

What's the diff between them and JB, Snyder, etc. though? It might just be that Zain and Metcalf's (and Howe and Ramos and Downey) physical advantages and wrestling style don't translate well from folk to free, no matter how much they train. And it's not like Zain and Brent had zero exposure to freestyle during those formative years.

Well Snyder is different since he wrestled a lot of freestyle during the college season 

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Well Snyder is different since he wrestled a lot of freestyle during the college season 

Yes, he sure did wrestle a lot of freestyle during the college season after he won a world and Olympic title. He also won a Junior World title while wrestling both folk and free.

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20 minutes ago, pamela said:

Yes, he sure did wrestle a lot of freestyle during the college season after he won a world and Olympic title. He also won a Junior World title while wrestling both folk and free.

I wish he had learned to brutalize people on top par terre.  No matter how great you are, you still need the great skill of expanding what your opponents must fear and train for.

 

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15 hours ago, pamela said:

What's the diff between them and JB, Snyder, etc. though? It might just be that Zain and Metcalf's (and Howe and Ramos and Downey) physical advantages and wrestling style don't translate well from folk to free, no matter how much they train. And it's not like Zain and Brent had zero exposure to freestyle during those formative years.

I wasn't necessarily meaning it as a freestyle vs folkstyle comment, but what you say above yes is kind of my point. For those individuals, and with Zain again there's a long way to go but I'm just going with my guesses for the future, their styles and skill sets do not translate as well.  Metcalf never got that medal and for Zain I just don't see a gold and maybe not even a medal, could be wrong, hopefully I am.  I don't know if Metcalf wrestled internationally age group but he has alot of Fargo titles and Zain was age group world champ. So from 18-23 they focused on and developed techniques, tactics, skills, muscle memory toward those folkstyle situations.  That's all.  Alot of those guys you mention, their styles and skill sets do translate so much better.  In some cases just so damn good it doesn't matter freestyle vs folkstyle.   Snyder's free to folk ration in that age group is far different than anyone who has wrestled D-1.

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Zain has a 2012 Cadet world title so he's been familiar with Freestyle for some time. In folkstyle I would favor Zain but freestyle its Yianni it's not a knock against either. style just suits one better than the other.

Keep in mind that Zain won his Cadet title the year the PIAA suspended him for transferring from Line Mountain to Benton. He trained only FS with Russ Hughes though whole year.


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If Zain is injured, he needs to "do the right thing" and give it up to Yianni.  Sure, individualism is where our minds and hearts should consistently reside, but these are potentially extenuating circumstances.  

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I wasn't necessarily meaning it as a freestyle vs folkstyle comment, but what you say above yes is kind of my point. For those individuals, and with Zain again there's a long way to go but I'm just going with my guesses for the future, their styles and skill sets do not translate as well.  Metcalf never got that medal and for Zain I just don't see a gold and maybe not even a medal, could be wrong, hopefully I am.  I don't know if Metcalf wrestled internationally age group but he has alot of Fargo titles and Zain was age group world champ. So from 18-23 they focused on and developed techniques, tactics, skills, muscle memory toward those folkstyle situations.  That's all.  Alot of those guys you mention, their styles and skill sets do translate so much better.  In some cases just so damn good it doesn't matter freestyle vs folkstyle.   Snyder's free to folk ration in that age group is far different than anyone who has wrestled D-1.
This is 100% correct.
Those college years you really round into the wrestler youre going to be moving forward. Some people develop aggressive plans that translate well, others love the scramble rollie pollie aspect of folk that doesnt translate as well to free, so on and so forth. Had they not been able to develop successfull folk habits that dont translate you can see where the benefits would likely be reflected in their results.

Who can say if it truly hinders the development of "all" wrestlers, but the importance NCAA Wrestling has in this country absolutely prevents some very talented wrestlers from reaching their international potential by promoting strategy that simply doesn't work.

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1 hour ago, treep2000 said:

If Zain is injured, he needs to "do the right thing" and give it up to Yianni.  Sure, individualism is where our minds and hearts should consistently reside, but these are potentially extenuating circumstances.  

It’s his spot to do what he wants with it. He earned by beating Yianni twice. “Doing the right thing” is whatever he decides. Remember their is more at stake then just these world championships, next year is the Olympic year and that bye to the finals is so valuable.  

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Tbert, you ignorant shmuck...

The outcome of Zain / Yianni has not been determined.  If any match has been contested AND is subject to review, it has not yet been determined.  What an absolute moron.  Seriously.  Are you Zain's mother?  You've got a certain way about you that leads me to believe so.  Blind feminine loyalty of sorts....

Edited by RED

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