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4 hours ago, RED said:

Tbert, you ignorant shmuck...

The outcome of Zain / Yianni has not been determined.  If any match has been contested AND is subject to review, it has not yet been determined.  What an absolute moron.  Seriously.  Are you Zain's mother?  You've got a certain way about you that leads me to believe so.  Blind feminine loyalty of sorts....

Ah yes, because we all know how women so much more than men are known for their blind loyalty to sports figures. 

I agree that outcome isn’t decided, but your sexist ad hominem attack detracts from your point rather than helping it.

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14 hours ago, RED said:

Tbert, you ignorant shmuck...

The outcome of Zain / Yianni has not been determined.  If any match has been contested AND is subject to review, it has not yet been determined.  What an absolute moron.  Seriously.  Are you Zain's mother?  You've got a certain way about you that leads me to believe so.  Blind feminine loyalty of sorts....

 

C'mon, this is way over the top. Try to at least be civil, if you can. 

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Pyles and Willie just confirmed on FRL that the powers that be at USA Wrestling did NOT want Yianni to wrestle at this event, but did not have the authority to prevent him. Sounds like they agree with my reasoning. Just saying...

They also confirmed that Yianni plans to wrestle in Poland, validating my other suggestion that he could get international experience at other tournaments if that's what he was after. Some on here suggested that this couldn't be the case due to scheduling issues.  Ol' QC seems to be on the right side of history here friends.

Edited by qc8223

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8 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

Pyles and Willie just confirmed on FRL that the powers that be at USA Wrestling did NOT want Yianni to wrestle at this event, but did not have the authority to prevent him. Sounds like they agree with my reasoning. Just saying...

They also confirmed that Yianni plans to wrestle in Poland, validating my other suggestion that he could get international experience at other tournaments if that's what he was after. Some on here suggested that this couldn't be the case due to scheduling issues.  Ol' QC seems to be on the right side of history here friends.

 

I wonder if they didn't want him there because it could add to the risk of injury for Zain? Also, did they convey to Yianni that they did not want him there and Yianni went anyway? That would be right in line with how the Koll team has operated this year. Seems to be their way or the highway, or get dragged into a legal battle. 

Edited by TBar1977

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14 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

I wonder if they didn't want him there because it could add to the risk of injury for Zain? Also, did they convey to Yianni that they did not want him there and Yianni went anyway? That would be right in line with how the Koll team has operated this year. Seems to be their way or the highway, or get dragged into a legal battle. 

I would assume they communicated to Yianni's camp that they preferred only the reps to be there and Yianni's camp said "tough luck" because they still believe he can be the rep.

Prior to the tournament, I think the concern from USA Wrestling's perspective was not a concern for injury, but a concern that Yianni could potentially limit Zain's matches against international guys, which was the main point of the tournament in the first place. I don't think they could have imagined Yianni injuring Zain if they wrestled. There's no reason to fear that happening vs. Yianni as opposed to any other opponent. The big thing was the potential for Yianni to ruin Zain's tune up tournament, which he subsequently did.

But you're right that this is right in line with Cornell's actions this summer. He's doing what's best for his guys, which I can't blame him for. Just sucks that the best thing for his guys, imo, sometimes is against the best interests of Team USA.

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15 hours ago, RED said:

Tbert, you ignorant shmuck...

The outcome of Zain / Yianni has not been determined.  If any match has been contested AND is subject to review, it has not yet been determined.  What an absolute moron.  Seriously.  Are you Zain's mother?  You've got a certain way about you that leads me to believe so.  Blind feminine loyalty of sorts....

People like this LOVE telling on themselves lol

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Food for thought.  Wrestling is a selfish sport with loosely aligned teams, especially at the international level.  Why is it Yianni D's job to see that Zain R gets the most out a tune up tournament?

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13 minutes ago, spladle said:

Food for thought.  Wrestling is a selfish sport with loosely aligned teams, especially at the international level.  Why is it Yianni D's job to see that Zain R gets the most out a tune up tournament?

That's exactly right and why I don't take a ton of issue with Yianni and the Cornell camp. They acted in their best interest. I just wish they hadn't.

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39 minutes ago, spladle said:

Food for thought.  Wrestling is a selfish sport with loosely aligned teams, especially at the international level.  Why is it Yianni D's job to see that Zain R gets the most out a tune up tournament?

 

So we can gather you won't object if Zain is still not 100 percent and does not step aside for Yianni come worlds?

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Who did they confirm with?  I was told by someone out there that since this was not yet completely resolved they felt it good both compete. Didn’t invite him to go but didn’t persuade against. Just curious. 

End of the day it doesn’t matter. Yianni is training to compete in the Olympics next year. He not only had every right to go, he should as part of that preparation if he has the means to do so. Whether or not he is going to Poland has every bit of impact on  whether he should have gone to Dogu as the result of Dogu has impact on arbitration. 

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56 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

So we can gather you won't object if Zain is still not 100 percent and does not step aside for Yianni come worlds?

No one has any obligation to "step aside". If Zain has an injury but thinks he can make a go, I really do not care.

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9 minutes ago, spladle said:

No one has any obligation to "step aside". If Zain has an injury but thinks he can make a go, I really do not care.

 

Glad to see consistency here. 

Edited by TBar1977

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5 minutes ago, spladle said:

No one has any obligation to "step aside". 

This isn't exactly true or at least does not accurately describe the rules.  Zain might think he is well enough to go, but if a USAW approved doctor disagrees or he refuses to be evaluated then the rules allow for him to be replaced.  Also if his injury keeps him from participating in mandatory training or competition or following the weight control plan then he can be removed/forced to step aside.  Not sure how likely that is to actually happen but it's in the rules.

An athlete who is to be nominated to the Team by USA Wrestling may be removed  for any of the following reasons, as determined by USA Wrestling: 

3.1.1. Voluntary withdrawal.  Athlete must submit a written letter to the USA  Wrestling CEO/Executive Director. 

3.1.2. Injury or illness as certified by a physician (or medical staff) approved by  USA Wrestling.  If an athlete refuses verification of his/her illness or injury  by a physician (or medical staff) approved by USA Wrestling, his injury will  be assumed to be disabling and he may be removed.

3.1.3. Failure to participate in Mandatory Training and/or Competition as defined  in Section 9 of these procedures. 

3.1.4. Violation of USA Wrestling’s Code of Conduct (Attachment A). 

3.1.5. Failure to follow the weight control plan as mutually agreed upon by the  athlete and National Coach may be grounds for removal from the team  (refer to Section 9 for more information).  

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Just as I don’t understand the Yianni shouldn’t have gone to Dogu stance, even more so I don’t get the Zain should do the right thing if he’s hurt stance. My oh my. 

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"How strict do you think this is enforced?  In 1992, John Smith wrestled with a staph infection and Kenny Monday subluxed his elbow in training camp.  Think they should have "stepped aside".

Edited by spladle

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4 minutes ago, spladle said:

"How strict do you think this is enforced?  In 1992, John Smith wrestled with a staph infection and Kenny Monday subluxed his elbow in training camp.  Think they should have "stepped aside".

Or when Burroughs wrestled a few weeks post-op from a broken ankle. 

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Katie Ledecky pulled out from competing in swimming's World Championships like two hours before today's meet. I know it's an apples and oranges situation but hope that if he and Dake say they're good to go, that they're actually good to go.

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3 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

 

I wonder if they didn't want him there because it could add to the risk of injury for Zain? Also, did they convey to Yianni that they did not want him there and Yianni went anyway? That would be right in line with how the Koll team has operated this year. Seems to be their way or the highway, or get dragged into a legal battle. 

I would hope that's what they did and for that reason.  When Terry Brands lost to Kendall Cross at the 96 OTT, they were not allowed to practice together afterwards since the coaches were afraid Terry would hurt Kendall.  Zain was awarded the spot to be our #1 guy.  Too much risk to allow situations (like live matches) where the #2 can hurt the #1.  Especially in which there is a lot of tension in a rivalry.  It would have been different if they said we have no 65kg rep until the arbitration. 

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Who did they confirm with?  I was told by someone out there that since this was not yet completely resolved they felt it good both compete. Didn’t invite him to go but didn’t persuade against. Just curious. 

End of the day it doesn’t matter. Yianni is training to compete in the Olympics next year. He not only had every right to go, he should as part of that preparation if he has the means to do so. Whether or not he is going to Poland has every bit of impact on  whether he should have gone to Dogu as the result of Dogu has impact on arbitration. 

That should have been more reason to not let them compete at the same tournament in which they could wrestle each other.  What if Yanni's team wins the arbitration and gets another match.  Now, Zain is potentially not 100% because of Yanni.  This situation is made even more muddy.  If Zain was hurt at the Dogu by another coutnry, unfortunate but it is what it is.  You can't control that.  I felt like this could have been controlled.  

I say all this believing Yanni is the better 65kg rep.

Edited by misterc

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53 minutes ago, misterc said:

I would hope that's what they did and for that reason.  When Terry Brands lost to Kendall Cross at the 96 OTT, they were not allowed to practice together afterwards since the coaches were afraid Terry would hurt Kendall.  Zain was awarded the spot to be our #1 guy.  Too much risk to allow situations (like live matches) where the #2 can hurt the #1.  Especially in which there is a lot of tension in a rivalry.  It would have been different if they said we have no 65kg rep until the arbitration. 

That should have been more reason to not let them compete at the same tournament in which they could wrestle each other.  What if Yanni's team wins the arbitration and gets another match.  Now, Zain is potentially not 100% because of Yanni.  This situation is made even more muddy.  If Zain was hurt at the Dogu by another coutnry, unfortunate but it is what it is.  You can't control that.  I felt like this could have been controlled.  

I say all this believing Yanni is the better 65kg rep.

Well there’s two things here: 1) how can they not let him compete. It’s more or less open. If he has the desire and means to make the tournament how can they not allow it? 2) I don’t understand how if Zain is injured by another country it is what it is, but if it’s Yianni it could have been controlled?  All due respect but the makes no sense. The risk factor is there no matter the opponent or country they represent. It can’t be controlled at all. 

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1 hour ago, spladle said:

"How strict do you think this is enforced?  In 1992, John Smith wrestled with a staph infection and Kenny Monday subluxed his elbow in training camp.  Think they should have "stepped aside".

What year was the Monday injury?  In the Smith example and Burroughs, which someone else mentioned, it was a returning world champ with the injury.  And with Monday he could have been the same plus an elbow subluxation doesn't necessarily sound that serious.   Anyway in the Smith and Burroughs examples they were defending world champs and the guys who would have replaced them had never made a world team.  I'd expect a returning world champ would get more latitude than Zain and some might think an injured Burroughs/Smith is a better option than a 100% Dake/Fisher, so these may not be completely applicable.  If it was John Jay Chavez, Alli Ragan, Nashon Garrett, Tervel Dlagnev, or someone else who wanted to compete despite a serious injury maybe USAW would/did pull the plug.  

Tying this in with the move that caused Zain's injury Cary Kolat hit essentially the same move on John Fisher (Smith's would be replacement) at the US Open in 1997.  I have never seen a wrestler dominate a match from the bottom position like Kolat did in that match.  He scored more points on bottom than Fisher did from all positions.

 

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20 hours ago, RED said:

Tbert, you ignorant shmuck...

The outcome of Zain / Yianni has not been determined.  If any match has been contested AND is subject to review, it has not yet been determined.  What an absolute moron.  Seriously.  Are you Zain's mother?  You've got a certain way about you that leads me to believe so.  Blind feminine loyalty of sorts....

Not good to skip your prozac. Maybe mom will double up your dose tonight.

 Scroll down to the 65 kg and have mom read what it says.  

Jun 8
Piscataway, NJ
 
 

2019 World Team Members

GRECO 55KG - MAX NOWRY

GRECO 67KG - ELLIS COLEMAN

GRECO 77KG - PAT SMITH

GRECO 82KG - JOHN STEFANOWICZ

GRECO 87KG - JOE RAU

 

WOMENS 50KG - WHITNEY CONDER

WOMENS 57KG - JENNA BURKERT

WOMENS 68KG - Tamyra Mensah-Stock

WOMENS 72KG - VICTORIA FRANCIS

 

MENS 65KG - ZAIN RETHERFORD

MENS 92KG - J'DEN COX

MENS 125KG - NICK GWIAZDOWSKI

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Not good to skip your prozac. Maybe mom will double up your dose tonight.
 Scroll down to the 65 kg and have mom read what it says.  
Jun 8 Piscataway, NJ    

2019 World Team Members

GRECO 55KG - MAX NOWRY
GRECO 67KG - ELLIS COLEMAN
GRECO 77KG - PAT SMITH
GRECO 82KG - JOHN STEFANOWICZ
GRECO 87KG - JOE RAU
 
WOMENS 50KG - WHITNEY CONDER
WOMENS 57KG - JENNA BURKERT
WOMENS 68KG - Tamyra Mensah-Stock
WOMENS 72KG - VICTORIA FRANCIS
 
MENS 65KG - ZAIN RETHERFORD
MENS 92KG - J'DEN COX
MENS 125KG - NICK GWIAZDOWSKI
Where's Downey? He weighed in at Final X!

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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