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12 hours ago, russelscout said:

You want them to wrestle? There has to be higher monetary incentives. Why wrestle in the Yasar Dogu final if you think it could do anything to hurt your chances in the Worlds? That's where the pay day is, and it is their job.

 

....but yes. I see what you are getting at...

You would think someone who would defend lawyering up to "protect" a wrestler's interest would understand why another wrestler would forfeit (ostensibly to protect ranking or against risk of injury) in the finals of a lesser tournament. 

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24 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

You would think someone who would defend lawyering up to "protect" a wrestler's interest would understand why another wrestler would forfeit (ostensibly to protect ranking or against risk of injury) in the finals of a lesser tournament. 

Are you saying I defended someone lawyering up? I think you have me confused with someone else. However, I cant blame anyone for acting in their own best interest when their income is dependent on it. 

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I assume the forfeiters had their own best interests at heart. I guess the problem is the incentives created by UWW or whoever. Because an unjustified (that is, not injury induced) is bad for the sport, they should create a rule that penalizes such conduct such as be deducting ranking points, a financial penalty or a suspension. Having a system that encourages forfeiting is just sad.

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31 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I assume the forfeiters had their own best interests at heart. I guess the problem is the incentives created by UWW or whoever. Because an unjustified (that is, not injury induced) is bad for the sport, they should create a rule that penalizes such conduct such as be deducting ranking points, a financial penalty or a suspension. Having a system that encourages forfeiting is just sad.

This is only have the equation at best.  The only reason why Chamizo was incentivized to forfeit is that he competed MORE and won MORE all year than Burroughs did.  Why is skipping a match worse that skipping a tournament?

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6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I thought it had been substantiated that the Cornell crew did not in fact "lawyer up".  Why do people keep going there?

Because tbar and tbert thinks this is a good narrative to push forward?

their guy can’t even get out of the first round of a points tournament that I could have entered if I wanted to. For the sake of our team, may god bless his presence at worlds. 

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1 hour ago, russelscout said:

Are you saying I defended someone lawyering up? I think you have me confused with someone else. However, I cant blame anyone for acting in their own best interest when their income is dependent on it. 

Not you, the guy you responded to. 

If you are going all in on the protect what is in the best interest of the wrestler, then by all means go ALL IN. Don't try to have it both ways. Chamizo was looking out for his own interests. The guy at 65 was looking out for his own interests. How is this any different than Koll lawyering up to look out for Yianni's interests? They are all motivated by what is in their own self interest here. 

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Just now, TBar1977 said:

Not you, the guy you responded to. 

If you are going all in on the protect what is in the best interest of the wrestler, then by all means go ALL IN. Don't try to have it both ways. Chamizo was looking out for his own interests. The guy at 65 was looking out for his own interests. How is this any different than Koll lawyering up to look out for Yianni's interests? They are all motivated by what is in their own self interest here. 

I'm all in on this one Tbar.

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26 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I thought it had been substantiated that the Cornell crew did not in fact "lawyer up".  Why do people keep going there?

Because Koll brought it up. And if you think lawyers were in no way involved in the draft of his 18 page complaint then I think you are either naive or in denial. 

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2 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Elaborate?

Because I thought he was at least trying to protect his #1 seed/ranking.

Sure he could have been trying to protect from injury, but Worlds are 2 months away.  I don't think the chances are that high that he sustains an injury that impacts him for Worlds.

What was the difference in payout for 1st and 2nd at Dogu?

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6 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Because Koll brought it up. And if you think lawyers were in no way involved in the draft of his 18 page complaint then I think you are either naive or in denial. 

What did he bring up in terms of "lawyering up"?  Seriously asking because I haven't heard.  Only thing I've heard in that reference is them using the term "legal right".

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34 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I thought it had been substantiated that the Cornell crew did not in fact "lawyer up".  Why do people keep going there?

Was it?  I don't think I've seen confirmation one way or the other.

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2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Because I thought he was at least trying to protect his #1 seed/ranking.

Sure he could have been trying to protect from injury, but Worlds are 2 months away.  I don't think the chances are that high that he sustains an injury that impacts him for Worlds.

What was the difference in payout for 1st and 2nd at Dogu?

DT probably thought the same when he agreed to wrestle an exhibition waaaay before worlds.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Was it?  I don't think I've seen confirmation one way or the other.

I could be wrong, I thought there was a report that came out after that said they didn't have any lawyers, just referenced "legal rights".  Like I said could be wrong.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

OK I guess guys should just only wrestle Worlds and that's it then.

Not what I'm saying, just saying it factors into the thinking in this situation.  Obviously he has competed plenty, plenty this season,  he has accumulated enough points for the #1 ranking, without medaling at last year's worlds.

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33 minutes ago, Lurker said:

What did he bring up in terms of "lawyering up"?  Seriously asking because I haven't heard.  Only thing I've heard in that reference is them using the term "legal right".

Go watch the Rudis Podcast where Dernlan interviewed Koll the Monday after Final X. He brings up lawyers and is very specific about it. 

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11 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Can someone please tell me why skipping a match is worse than skipping a tournament?

It's the current event to complain about.  If Chamizo would have pulled out the day before weigh in due to an injury, there would be people saying I am entitled to see you compete anyway, how dare you.  Every thing that happens is a reason for people to cry.  Its the world we live in today.

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13 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 Every thing that happens is a reason for people to cry.  Its the world we live in today.

There is one idiot in the Senate trying to open up an inquiry into why women basketball players in the WNBA make less than their male counterparts in the NBA. Is she just stupid, or is ignorant a better word for her? 

1. They draw flies.

2. Ticket prices are less than $10 is some cases because otherwise they wouldn't even draw flies. 

3. Their TV contract is peanuts because nobody wants to watch their product. 

And she can't figure out why they get paid less? Why is she wasting tax payer money on crap like this? 

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2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

There is one idiot in the Senate trying to open up an inquiry into why women basketball players in the WNBA make less than their male counterparts in the NBA. Is she just stupid, or is ignorant a better word for her? 

1. They draw flies.

2. Ticket prices are less than $10 is some cases because otherwise they wouldn't even draw flies. 

3. Their TV contract is peanuts because nobody wants to watch their product. 

And she can't figure out why they get paid less? Why is she wasting tax payer money on crap like this? 

Agreed, same stance I have with current USWNT agenda.  The issue is how does our economy work in America, not equal rights.  I just left the teaching/coaching profession this month, and in all my years whenever the debate came about regarding what professions deserve more pay.....yes NFL, NBA, etc etc etc players deserve more pay than I make as a teacher.  They bring those billions of dollars into their organization, they deserve it.  I do not.

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4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Agreed, same stance I have with current USWNT agenda.  The issue is how does our economy work in America, not equal rights.  I just left the teaching/coaching profession this month, and in all my years whenever the debate came about regarding what professions deserve more pay.....yes NFL, NBA, etc etc etc players deserve more pay than I make as a teacher.  They bring those billions of dollars into their organization, they deserve it.  I do not.

But even with Equal Rights, they HAVE Equal Rights. Nobody is stopping them from generating the same cash flow as the men, they just can't do so. 

If everyone must be paid the same based on gender equality and the only argument is they do the same thing, then I am going to pick up a microphone and start singing. Then, despite the fact I stink on ice at singing, I am going to demand equal pay as Madonna and whomever else makes huge money singing. 

 

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3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

But even with Equal Rights, they HAVE Equal Rights. Nobody is stopping them from generating the same cash flow as the men, they just can't do so. 

 

Yeah that's what I mean.

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3 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Elaborate?

if losing risked the #1 seed, it makes more sense to default. If it didn't, it's just ducking.

that said, i don't care if wrestlers treat ranking events as what they are. he got what he needed out of the event and walked away.

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