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Isn't it outrageous that JB's and Yianni's opponents for forfeited in the finals? seems very disrespectful to the fans, the organizers, the other wrestlers. I don't recall anyone ever forfeiting in the finals of the NCAAs. Does anyone ever forfeit in the finals of a conference tournament? 

Were these guys actually hurt? Does anyone know?

 

Edited by NJDan

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Isn't it outrageous that JB's and Yianni's opponents for forfeited in the finals? seems very disrespectful to the fans, the organizers, the other wrestlers. I don't recall anyone ever forfeiting in the finals of the NCAAs. Does anyone ever forfeit in the finals of a conference tournament? 
Were these guys actually hurt? Does anyone know?
 
Solid point.
People forfeiting in the finals of the biggest tournament of their lives (NCAAs)
Is equivalent to the forfeiting in the finals of a random freestyle tournamet.
Lmk how many people you also find forfeiting in the highschool or little league state finals :) I'm sure itll be a high number

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You want them to wrestle? There has to be higher monetary incentives. Why wrestle in the Yasar Dogu final if you think it could do anything to hurt your chances in the Worlds? That's where the pay day is, and it is their job.

 

....but yes. I see what you are getting at...

Edited by russelscout

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9 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Isn't it outrageous that JB's and Yianni's opponents for forfeited in the finals? seems very disrespectful to the fans, the organizers, the other wrestlers. I don't recall anyone ever forfeiting in the finals of the NCAAs. Does anyone ever forfeit in the finals of a conference tournament? 

Were these guys actually hurt? Does anyone know?

 

A post-non-match interview with Yianni he said that Ali told him it was a shoulder injury. No idea about Chamizo but someone else suggested he had nothing more to gain for Worlds because had already secured #1 by reaching the semis.

I for one am still angry at all of the people who went 2-0 at the Lock Haven tournament to boost their winning percentage and then defaulted out.

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16 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Solid point.
People forfeiting in the finals of the biggest tournament of their lives (NCAAs)
Is equivalent to the forfeiting in the finals of a random freestyle tournamet.
Lmk how many people you also find forfeiting in the highschool or little league state finals :) I'm sure itll be a high number

Not the NCAAs-- yes, I know. But I am not sure it's a "random" freestyle tournament. It's a tournament that people travel to from all over Europe and even the USA and Canada.  If it's such a crappy event, why did Team USA go?

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25 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Isn't it outrageous that JB's and Yianni's opponents for forfeited in the finals? seems very disrespectful to the fans, the organizers, the other wrestlers. I don't recall anyone ever forfeiting in the finals of the NCAAs. Does anyone ever forfeit in the finals of a conference tournament? 

Were these guys actually hurt? Does anyone know?

 

see BiG this year

much ado

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18 minutes ago, russelscout said:

You want them to wrestle? There has to be higher monetary incentives. Why wrestle in the Yasar Dogu final if you think it could do anything to hurt your chances in the Worlds? That's where the pay day is, and it is their job.

 

....but yes. I see what you are getting at...

If there is no point in wrestling at Yasar, why did they register in the first place. 

They could have "no, sir" to Yasar. But if you say Yas to Dogu, do Dogu all the way.

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Just now, GockeS said:

see BiG this year

much ado

You mean there are guys who enter and then forfeit? I guess they have to do that to make the NCAAs. Does wrestling at Yasar qualify anyone for the worlds? Or is it just a seed?

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Just now, GockeS said:

after seeing zain get hurt i dont blame any of them

Wait, Zain got hurt and quit the repechage. The question is whether the finalists were actually hurt at all. And whether there should be  some obligation to compete even if you have a tweak.

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from the OP :  Does anyone ever forfeit in the finals of a conference tournament?

there was at least one finals forfeit. rasheed?

and it wasn't the first year.

see nickerson as well i believe. maybe nolf too.

 

not sure if it qualifies a weight for a country... it might have, but many used it for seeding purposes.

just like at BiG's a seed was protected by forfeiting 

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Just now, NJDan said:

Wait, Zain got hurt and quit the repechage. The question is whether the finalists were actually hurt at all. And whether there should be  some obligation to compete even if you have a tweak.

thats not the point of my tweet. if there is nothing to gain from further matches, why risk the injury? wrestlers get hurt. why risk injury this close, when you have nothing more to gain?

I agree with you that i wanted to see the matches... but I can't say  that what they did was wrong. they did what was in their best interests

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You enter, you wrestle. Absent a verified Medical reason backed by a licensed physician - one who is familiar with sports injuries - you forfeit and you lose a year of competition. You also lose the place you would have had if you had wrestled. Make the penalty hurt.

It would not harm those who are actually injured.

Having wrestlers quit like this is worse than the reservation ball teams here that enter a tournament, lose a game and since they can't place first - just don't show up for the next game. So bad the local leagues require them to make cash deposits to enter for all umpire/referee costs. This is in case they don't show up. Makes it unfair to the other athletes and teams both.

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Good grief y'all sound entitled.  Good on Chamizo for making the smart call with no financial or competitive incentive.  Don't think there are many guys in the world who have been competing at his volume since they were an 18 y.o. world bronze.  Really going to get on him for FFing a match when numerous people on our team don't step on a mat to entertain you for 8-9 months at a clip?  You know what penalizing the medical FF would do? Get more guys to stay home all year.

If you want awesome tournaments outside of Worlds, you have to give competitive advantages and professional advantages.  The Grand Prix and UWW Seeding system is a phenomenal start, and I hope they get the prize money up. 

NCAAs is a whole separate issue.  Can't fix that unless you make the season a reasonable length, and ideally limit it to one semester.

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1 hour ago, GockeS said:

next up, duals

you lose the right to wrestle the weight for the rest of the season if you dont send a wrestler out.

are you all caught up on brain surgeries?

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1 hour ago, GockeS said:

thats not the point of my tweet. if there is nothing to gain from further matches, why risk the injury? wrestlers get hurt. why risk injury this close, when you have nothing more to gain?

 

I think the question is, “if there is nothing to gain” from wrestling in the finals, why enter at all?

I get why it’s “smart,” but this is setting a horrible precedent.   Ducking (and Chamizo apparently bragging about doing so on instagram) is now a worldwide phenomenon, even happening in high school and D2/D3 now.

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I would be in favor of using these tournaments for part of the seeding process, but paying a hefty prize for the championship, and the Outstanding Finals Performance to those who actually compete.

I'm a retired h.s. coach which is why I look at a crowd and think gate and concession.  I'd say for my 29 years of coaching, we probably averaged 20K per year from just gate and concession.  I wouldn't have wanted to waste everyone's time with that crowd.   What was that about?  Were they protesting?  Were the prices outrageous? Any grade school tournament I've ever seen in 30 years has had 10X that audience.  I would think in that part of the world you couldn't get a ticket for this tournament.  We finished 2nd to the number 8 ranked team in the world.  Turkey.  We didn't have Fix or Graff in the line-up.

 

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11 hours ago, NJDan said:

Not the NCAAs-- yes, I know. But I am not sure it's a "random" freestyle tournament. It's a tournament that people travel to from all over Europe and even the USA and Canada.  If it's such a crappy event, why did Team USA go?

I was a little tipsy dan, sorry for my aggression.
Yes it was a big tourney, yes I wanted to see the match-up. I don't know his reason for not  wrestling it, I'll assume he just didn't want to give JB more confidence, or expose his modified approach to the rivalry. 
Either way, sucks he didn't wrestle but obviously, he competed enough throughout the year to put himself in a situation where he didn't have to. 
So knocking him for not "competing" as a lot of people have been doing, doesn't sit with me. He has the most ranking points for a reason.... all he does is compete. 

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10 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Good grief y'all sound entitled.  Good on Chamizo for making the smart call with no financial or competitive incentive.  Don't think there are many guys in the world who have been competing at his volume since they were an 18 y.o. world bronze.  Really going to get on him for FFing a match when numerous people on our team don't step on a mat to entertain you for 8-9 months at a clip?  You know what penalizing the medical FF would do? Get more guys to stay home all year.

If you want awesome tournaments outside of Worlds, you have to give competitive advantages and professional advantages.  The Grand Prix and UWW Seeding system is a phenomenal start, and I hope they get the prize money up. 

NCAAs is a whole separate issue.  Can't fix that unless you make the season a reasonable length, and ideally limit it to one semester.

Yessir

 

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8 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Yes it was a big tourney, yes I wanted to see the match-up. I don't know his reason for not  wrestling it, I'll assume he just didn't want to give JB more confidence, or expose his modified approach to the rivalry. 

Check out his instagram - he basically said it was because he didn't want to lose his #1 ranking.

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2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Check out his instagram - he basically said it was because he didn't want to lose his #1 ranking.

That's not how it works. 
Had they been on the same side of the bracket they 100% would've wrestled. Chamizo only had to make the finals to jump Sidakov.  (He got 2nd by forfeiting, had he wrestled and lost he still would've got 2nd doesn't change his points)
He did that and locked up the #1 seed. 

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18 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

That's not how it works. 
Had they been on the same side of the bracket they 100% would've wrestled. Chamizo only had to make the finals to jump Sidakov.  (He got 2nd by forfeiting, had he wrestled and lost he still would've got 2nd doesn't change his points)
He did that and locked up the #1 seed. 

OK then I guess that makes it even worse IMO.

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