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J' Den will take out Snyder at the Olympic Trials

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

Just out of curiosity why is it increasingly apparent he’s going 86?

As others have said, after his last pull to 86kg he was pretty open about the difficulty (of the cut) and his desire to move up.
That, coupled with the fact that DT had looked outstanding,  put me on the "Cox will challenge Snyder" train.
Now why did I shift.
1.) His increase in practicing with Snyder.... I think neither guy would want to give up that much "feel" to their main roadblock for the Olympic spot.
2.) His weight. He has weighed-in considerably underweight, if he were planning on jumping another 11lbs in the next year, for the most prestigious award a wrestler can win, you'd think he would be leaving "easy weigh-in days" in his rearview.
3.) DT injury. I think the rest of us see DT as a killer but Cox knows he can win, has practiced with him and beat him in competition, add an extensive layoff to that. Cox has to like his chances.
4.) Sacrifice 1 year of cutting for Olympic Glory (I think the fact that its a one year thing makes the cut less of a hurdle than the credit we give it)

Truth be told, none of us "Know" what he will do. but I know I've turned a complete 180 over the past 6 months or so, on where I expect him to be in 2020.

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8 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

As others have said, after his last pull to 86kg he was pretty open about the difficulty (of the cut) and his desire to move up.
That, coupled with the fact that DT had looked outstanding,  put me on the "Cox will challenge Snyder" train.
Now why did I shift.
1.) His increase in practicing with Snyder.... I think neither guy would want to give up that much "feel" to their main roadblock for the Olympic spot.
2.) His weight. He has weighed-in considerably underweight, if he were planning on jumping another 11lbs in the next year, for the most prestigious award a wrestler can win, you'd think he would be leaving "easy weigh-in days" in his rearview.
3.) DT injury. I think the rest of us see DT as a killer but Cox knows he can win, has practiced with him and beat him in competition, add an extensive layoff to that. Cox has to like his chances.
4.) Sacrifice 1 year of cutting for Olympic Glory (I think the fact that its a one year thing makes the cut less of a hurdle than the credit we give it)

Truth be told, none of us "Know" what he will do. but I know I've turned a complete 180 over the past 6 months or so, on where I expect him to be in 2020.

Good points.  I haven't paid any attention at all to what his weigh ins have been but to your point #2 that does make sense.  I don't look much into he and Snyder training together.  I can see separation starting next season should he go up, but they are both training for individual and team gold this season.  I think that's there focus and what may or may not happen next year isn't playing much of a factor in their training together.

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This is an extremely premature thread. Focus on the matches in front of you before looking down the road - this means Pan Ams, 2019 Worlds, Schultz, Yariguin, US Open, and then people can worry about OTT. 

 

ETA: not to say this isn't fun, but we haven't even seen how our team will do at this year's world championships so let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet 

Edited by bnwtwg

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3 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Ringer did an interview with Bader a few weeks ago and confirmed that he plans to go 86kg and "just get huge."  

 

Inside sources say John Smith is going to make the call on Ringer’s weight class and that he is leaning towards 74.  Smith cut everyone for NCAA’s and has a good feel for the best results. 

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41 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

This is an extremely premature thread. Focus on the matches in front of you before looking down the road - this means Pan Ams, 2019 Worlds, Schultz, Yariguin, US Open, and then people can worry about OTT. 

 

ETA: not to say this isn't fun, but we haven't even seen how our team will do at this year's world championships so let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet 

You're totally right, however talking OTT is fair game imo since wrestlers have to make serious plans this year about where they want to take their shot for Tokyo 2020. It still still sucks that the Olympics only has 6 weight classes but it's also been fun to speculate where the tweeners will go, who might get squeezed out, etc. Makes for good storylines and fan buzz.

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Someone said earlier that Cox weighed in 2 under (kgs or lbs?) at Finalx, but there's a diff between having to make weight for finals vs. making weight and competing through a full bracket on both days of a tournament. It's a little bit of a flaw in our bye-to-the-finals model. 

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4 hours ago, Lurker said:

I agree and am aware of that dynamic.  But Cox has been on the scene and exposed all but one year less than KS, and his results are getting better and better.  That tells me he is diversifying and sharpening his technique a little more.  I'm not saying KS hasn't improved, not at all.  Just seems from the so called eye ball test, that Cox has more so.  Its hard to say and I could be wrong, that's just the feeling I've gotten over the past year.

I can see that in the since that the trajectory is with different points in time.  Snyder has really been working freestyle since his senior year where Cox put heavy focus starting after college.  So tha makes some since

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1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

As others have said, after his last pull to 86kg he was pretty open about the difficulty (of the cut) and his desire to move up.
That, coupled with the fact that DT had looked outstanding,  put me on the "Cox will challenge Snyder" train.
Now why did I shift.
1.) His increase in practicing with Snyder.... I think neither guy would want to give up that much "feel" to their main roadblock for the Olympic spot.
2.) His weight. He has weighed-in considerably underweight, if he were planning on jumping another 11lbs in the next year, for the most prestigious award a wrestler can win, you'd think he would be leaving "easy weigh-in days" in his rearview.
3.) DT injury. I think the rest of us see DT as a killer but Cox knows he can win, has practiced with him and beat him in competition, add an extensive layoff to that. Cox has to like his chances.
4.) Sacrifice 1 year of cutting for Olympic Glory (I think the fact that its a one year thing makes the cut less of a hurdle than the credit we give it)

Truth be told, none of us "Know" what he will do. but I know I've turned a complete 180 over the past 6 months or so, on where I expect him to be in 2020.

5) Cox may want to put the smack down on DT after Taylor shot his mouth off (from home) during '17 world's.

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Honestly, I think JC is out.  I think DT is the man at 86 and Snyder is the man at 97.  Cox is a tweener and it will be difficult.  His best chance I think is DT, but DT totally stormed the world last year, there was no one close to his performances.  That said, he is injured so I think, as of now, he will be easier for Cox to take out than KS. 

I hate the Olympic weight classes, let me just say that and make that clear!!

mspart

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1 minute ago, headshuck said:

Tayler has struggled to overcome opponents that he loses to.
0-11 vs Dake?
0-? vs Burroughs
0-1 vs Jenkins
1-2 vs Cox?
 

But like he's what, 50-0 against your sanity? Seems like he's really gotten into your head. Everything OK?

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Taylor absolutely dominated an Olympic weight last year.  If, and this is the deal, he can keep that up, there is no one that beats him at 86kg.  I'm no PSU fan but he is the best in the world at that weight.  I find it hard to consider anyone from US taking him out.  We will see, that much I do know!

mspart

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, mspart said:

Taylor absolutely dominated an Olympic weight last year.  If, and this is the deal, he can keep that up, there is no one that beats him at 86kg.  I'm no PSU fan but he is the best in the world at that weight.  I find it hard to consider anyone from US taking him out.  We will see, that much I do know!

mspart

 

 

 

 

Yeah, Cox won worlds last year too, up a weight class, and has beaten Taylor in their only head-to-head.  And as much as DT improved from '17 to '18, I think Cox has improved just as much.

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43 minutes ago, buckeye97 said:

If Cox can make weight he goes 86. Who in their right mind thinks they have a better shot of beating Snyder and Sadulaev vs. Taylor if Olympic gold is the objective. 

Don't discount Yazadani just because Taylor wore him down like a boss.
He crushes everyone not named DT. Could also have WORLD CHAMP Ringer at this weight as well (depending on how the next month goes)
That said, I'm under the impression he goes down as well.

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Taylor was a fun story in 2018, but he's a one-time world team member. In 2020, he's not beating Cox, a world champion/Olympic medalist with a much better international wrestling track record than Taylor.

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3 hours ago, mspart said:

Taylor absolutely dominated an Olympic weight last year.  If, and this is the deal, he can keep that up, there is no one that beats him at 86kg.  I'm no PSU fan but he is the best in the world at that weight.  I find it hard to consider anyone from US taking him out.  We will see, that much I do know!

mspart

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, KCMO2 said:

Yeah, Cox won worlds last year too, up a weight class, and has beaten Taylor in their only head-to-head.  And as much as DT improved from '17 to '18, I think Cox has improved just as much.

Also not to be discounted is Taylor coming off a very serious knee injury. I think I head ACL right? He'll barely be back in time for trials, let alone in top form. I think Cox is a tough match up for DT as well. The only question I have with J'Den is whether he can be effective at 86.

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That was my caveat.  If he can keep that same intensity and sharpness.  This injury (I don't know what it is) could bring him down for sure.  But if he is 100% healthy, I don't see Cox winning.  Yes Cox (and I think he is incredible, just a tweener in Olympic terms) is a WC at a non-Olympic weight.  Taylor is a WC at an Olympic weight.  I think there is a difference there.  You'll  notice Sadulaev did not go to 92, rather he went to 97, because that is an Olympic weight.   It will be a real battle with Cox for sure.  I just think DT prevails in 2020 if healthy.

mspart

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29 minutes ago, mspart said:

That was my caveat.  If he can keep that same intensity and sharpness.  This injury (I don't know what it is) could bring him down for sure.  But if he is 100% healthy, I don't see Cox winning.  Yes Cox (and I think he is incredible, just a tweener in Olympic terms) is a WC at a non-Olympic weight.  Taylor is a WC at an Olympic weight.  I think there is a difference there.  You'll  notice Sadulaev did not go to 92, rather he went to 97, because that is an Olympic weight.   It will be a real battle with Cox for sure.  I just think DT prevails in 2020 if healthy.

mspart

And J'den is a world and Olympic bronze at that Olympic weight during years Taylor couldn't make the team. And J'den is younger and still getting better every time we see him. The only thing that could hold him back is the weight cut.

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