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J' Den will take out Snyder at the Olympic Trials

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I’m not so sure that him going down to 86 is an easier path than up to 97. When you account for the cut, Taylor’s motor, and the match up (styles make fights). Cox has improved tremendously since ‘17, but so has Taylor. Snyder obviously an all timer type of stud, but has he improved significantly over the last two years?  It’s not as “visible” as the other two if he has. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I’m not so sure that him going down to 86 is an easier path than up to 97. When you account for the cut, Taylor’s motor, and the match up (styles make fights). Cox has improved tremendously since ‘17, but so has Taylor. Snyder obviously an all timer type of stud, but has he improved significantly over the last two years?  It’s not as “visible” as the other two if he has. 

 

Snyder is 23 and has 2 world titles, an olympic title, and a world silver.  His only loss at a world championship event is to Sadulaev.  David Taylor is 28 and has 1 world tittle.  My bet is that Snyder is still improving, while we are all hoping Taylor will be able to come back from injury and regain his form from 2018.  The only reason Snyder's improvement is not visible is scouting from the rest of the world can help keep his matches close, and of course Sadulaev was able to put on weight and win the remeatch.  It is very clear me that Snyder is the tougher road to making the team, and going through Sadulaev makes 97 kg the much tougher path to an olympic title.  If Cox can make 86, there is no doubt that is where he should go.  

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Cox would beat Taylor, but not sure Cox would beat Yazdani. Seems like a bad matchup as Cox admittedly likes to work from space. Taylor may be the best man to beat the worlds best. I also think Cox gets as much satisfaction winning the spot and beating the next lauded american fan favorite multiple time ncaa champ as he does winning gold at worlds over an iranian or russian

Edited by alliseeisgold

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Cox vs. Snyder will be great, but 74kg will be really fun to watch from top to bottom. The weight is stacked with *potentially* JB, Dake, Green, Ringer, IMar, Nolf, Mekhi, Hall, Valencia, Hidlay, Deakin, Wick, Massa, Chamberlain, Marsteller, Marinelli, Carr, Ness, etc. - I know not all those guys will be at 74 and I've missed some others but sheesh what a tough weight.

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5 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Snyder is 23 and has 2 world titles, an olympic title, and a world silver.  His only loss at a world championship event is to Sadulaev.  David Taylor is 28 and has 1 world tittle.  My bet is that Snyder is still improving, while we are all hoping Taylor will be able to come back from injury and regain his form from 2018.  The only reason Snyder's improvement is not visible is scouting from the rest of the world can help keep his matches close, and of course Sadulaev was able to put on weight and win the remeatch.  It is very clear me that Snyder is the tougher road to making the team, and going through Sadulaev makes 97 kg the much tougher path to an olympic title.  If Cox can make 86, there is no doubt that is where he should go.  

I think going through Snyder is tougher than Taylor. It is worth considering that there will be more challengers at 86 however. Jden is the favorite against everyone at 86, especially given that Taylor will be coming back from a serious injury, but Ringer, Zahid, Hall and maybe Dake will also be at 86kg. 

I think Jden should go 86kg but man it isn’t much easier

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2 hours ago, pamela said:

Cox vs. Snyder will be great, but 74kg will be really fun to watch from top to bottom. The weight is stacked with *potentially* JB, Dake, Green, Ringer, IMar, Nolf, Mekhi, Hall, Valencia, Hidlay, Deakin, Wick, Massa, Chamberlain, Marsteller, Marinelli, Carr, Ness, etc. - I know not all those guys will be at 74 and I've missed some others but sheesh what a tough weight.

I would be shocked if Ringer went 74. Still a valid point for sure. Every weight will be stacked. 

57 kg has 3 super elite guys (Gilman, Fix, Lee, plus other solid guys)

65 kg has JO, Yianni, Zain Molinaro maybe Pico

74 kg you listed

86 kg has Taylor, Zahid, Hall, maybe Cox, maybe Dake, likely Ringer

97kg has Snyder, Walz, maybe Jden, Nickal

125 has Gwiz, Gable, and a few other age level medalists who will be a year older

eveey weight has at least 2 medal contenders and many have two gold contenders

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11 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

There will be three world champs sitting out next year.  M2, KD and Ringer.  4 champs in one bracket.  First time? Has this even happened in a world bracket?

M2?  Maybe your talking about M^2 or 2Ms but yeah who is M2 or is it Mtoo?  ;)

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What a disappointing thread.
Disappointing because: Many have already "called" him being able to beat Snyder (myself included)
Disappointing because: It seems increasingly apparent he is going 86kg.
Disappointing because: The OP apparently didn't realize we had 5 World champs scattered across 3 weights, I'd wager 2 don't make the team #Shocking

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8 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Snyder is 23 and has 2 world titles, an olympic title, and a world silver.  His only loss at a world championship event is to Sadulaev.  David Taylor is 28 and has 1 world tittle.  My bet is that Snyder is still improving, while we are all hoping Taylor will be able to come back from injury and regain his form from 2018.  The only reason Snyder's improvement is not visible is scouting from the rest of the world can help keep his matches close, and of course Sadulaev was able to put on weight and win the remeatch.  It is very clear me that Snyder is the tougher road to making the team, and going through Sadulaev makes 97 kg the much tougher path to an olympic title.  If Cox can make 86, there is no doubt that is where he should go.  

Really good points.  Especially with the scouting aspect.  I think you see this a lot.  Score gaps close and we think athletes are not improving when really they are improving on strategy and ways to win against an international community who are all focusing on them.  That's why often it is harder to stay at the top than to get to the top. 

Edited by scramble

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41 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

What a disappointing thread.
Disappointing because: Many have already "called" him being able to beat Snyder (myself included)
Disappointing because: It seems increasingly apparent he is going 86kg.
Disappointing because: The OP apparently didn't realize we had 5 World champs scattered across 3 weights, I'd wager 2 don't make the team #Shocking

+1.  

We've been having this conversation on and off over the past 6 months, and he definitively did not say he's going up.  My hunch for some time has been that he will go 97kg because (1) I think he believes he can beat Snyder, and (2) his comments about making the weight after World's last year.  But, I could be totally wrong, and there are convincing arguments pointing toward 86kg as well.  Plus, it may be tough for Cox to pass up a chance to block DT's path to the Olympics... I think that grudge is very much still alive. 

 

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21 minutes ago, scramble said:

Really good points.  Especially with the scouting aspect.  I think you see this a lot.  Score gaps close and we think athletes are not improving when really they are improving on strategy and ways to win against an international community who are all focusing on them.  That's why often it is harder to stay at the top than to get to the top. 

I agree and am aware of that dynamic.  But Cox has been on the scene and exposed all but one year less than KS, and his results are getting better and better.  That tells me he is diversifying and sharpening his technique a little more.  I'm not saying KS hasn't improved, not at all.  Just seems from the so called eye ball test, that Cox has more so.  Its hard to say and I could be wrong, that's just the feeling I've gotten over the past year.

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13 hours ago, Lurker said:

Snyder will have a strength advantage but I don’t see him just horsepowering Cox around. He has some horse power himself. Cox is also going to have speed, athleticism, and if his current trend continues, technique advantages. I don’t think he’ll stay in the close ties a lot and allow KS to use his hand fighting, etc. It’s a hell of a match up.  

I don't think he has a speed advantage.  Snyder gets to the leg quicker while Cox is probably quicker in defense.  I think he's longer and that's probably his biggest advantage in that match.  I think Snyder will control the circle and that will put the onus on Cox to score offensively which will be tough on him.  

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3 minutes ago, boconnell said:

   I think Snyder will control the circle and that will put the onus on Cox to score offensively which will be tough on him.  

Very valid point.

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5 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I don't think he has a speed advantage.  Snyder gets to the leg quicker 

You're serious?  Did you watch any of J'Den's matches at Dogu?  Snyder is quick to the leg, but Cox now is unreal.

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20 minutes ago, MagnetBack said:

Cox is going 86 in 2020, not 97. Both Cox and Snyder will be on the Olympic team. 

He said he’s going 86? I didn’t think he wanted to or could make the weight.

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2 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

 (2) his comments about making the weight after World's last year.  

 

This is still the most "committal" he's sounded that I've heard. Seemed like an 86kg retirement announcement. 

...but people come out of retirement, so we'll see.

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