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J' Den will take out Snyder at the Olympic Trials

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3 hours ago, Crotalus said:

And J'den is a world and Olympic bronze at that Olympic weight during years Taylor couldn't make the team. And J'den is younger and still getting better every time we see him. The only thing that could hold him back is the weight cut.

the weight cut is a huge deal. this isn't like college where a bunch of teenagers are still filling out. cox is *huge* now and ripped to shreds. he probably has a negative body fat percentage.

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Serious thought..  I wonder If DT will actually drop some weight because of his injury.  If it is an ACL he will be limited in his lifts.  At least with real weight.  Not much squats, deadlifts, or power cleans. Those are 3 key power lifts.  While he could do some upper body, he will be limited on lower body workouts. A lot of weight and strength comes from lower body and power lifts.  Not that he will go down, but he may not have as much good mass with 2020 fast approaching. 

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On 7/16/2019 at 6:50 PM, mspart said:

Honestly, I think JC is out.  I think DT is the man at 86 and Snyder is the man at 97.  Cox is a tweener and it will be difficult.  His best chance I think is DT, but DT totally stormed the world last year, there was no one close to his performances.  That said, he is injured so I think, as of now, he will be easier for Cox to take out than KS. 

I hate the Olympic weight classes, let me just say that and make that clear!!

mspart

As fantastic as the OTTs will assuredly be, it just makes me angry that so many deserving hammers may never get to wrestle in an Olympics.

Six f%cking weight classes is awful.

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3 hours ago, whaletail said:

As fantastic as the OTTs will assuredly be, it just makes me angry that so many deserving hammers may never get to wrestle in an Olympics.

Six f%cking weight classes is awful.

Another good reason to allow TWO wrestlers per country in weights they qualify.

Track & swimming and gymnastics and so many other events allow more than one participant per event.

Two per weight would make for even more interest.

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42 minutes ago, WillieBoy said:

Another good reason to allow TWO wrestlers per country in weights they qualify.

Track & swimming and gymnastics and so many other events allow more than one participant per event.

Two per weight would make for even more interest.

Christ, in US Track & Field, the top 3 in every solo event automatically make the world team, in addition to returning world champs.  Returning world champs must at least attend nationals, and demonstrate fitness (whatever that means), but they're granted an automatic berth in addition to the three qualifiers.  The previous year's Diamond League champion in each event is also granted a berth, but since I'm not sure the US can actually take 5, I'm not sure how that works.

I'm not sure whether the above changes in Olympic years, but I know they take at least three.

Participants also have to meet a rigorous qualifying standard for worlds, and an even higher standard during Olympic years, but rarely does that preclude the US from maxing out its team (hammer throw may be the exception that proves the rule).

Keep in mind, extra sprinters also make the team, for use in the early relay heats and finals.  Rarely does a medal threat not make team, with Keni Harrison in the women's 100m hurdles the only example I recall.  She finished fourth at nationals, missed the 2016 Olympics, then set the WR on the same London track a few weeks later.  Of course, the three US qualifiers won all three medals, so that's obviously a bit of an anomaly.

Surprisingly, gymnastics teams only get 5 members now (from 6 prior), but at least two members from a single country can still advance to the all-around finals.  That does affect the US women's team, as they would often sweep otherwise, but with only a single rep per weight, wrestling is much worse off.

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15 hours ago, scramble said:

Serious thought..  I wonder If DT will actually drop some weight because of his injury.  If it is an ACL he will be limited in his lifts.  At least with real weight.  Not much squats, deadlifts, or power cleans. Those are 3 key power lifts.  While he could do some upper body, he will be limited on lower body workouts. A lot of weight and strength comes from lower body and power lifts.  Not that he will go down, but he may not have as much good mass with 2020 fast approaching. 

Why do you think he went all the way out to California to find his trainer...

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54 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Why do you think he went all the way out to California to find his trainer...

I wasn't aware.  I figured he was still out east.  I can see an athlete at his level seeking out specialists or to people in the field for sure though. 

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Yah, I guess it’s common for athletes at that level to take measures to gain any sort of perceived edge. Like the way pros and last cycles Olympic athletes would travel to receive some sort of special training, nutrition, psychiatry, or even weird quacky/nonproven stuff like cupping, cryo, herbs, hypnosis, etc. The placebo effect is very real.

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On 7/16/2019 at 12:56 PM, spladle08 said:

As others have said, after his last pull to 86kg he was pretty open about the difficulty (of the cut) and his desire to move up.
That, coupled with the fact that DT had looked outstanding,  put me on the "Cox will challenge Snyder" train.
Now why did I shift.
1.) His increase in practicing with Snyder.... I think neither guy would want to give up that much "feel" to their main roadblock for the Olympic spot.
2.) His weight. He has weighed-in considerably underweight, if he were planning on jumping another 11lbs in the next year, for the most prestigious award a wrestler can win, you'd think he would be leaving "easy weigh-in days" in his rearview.
3.) DT injury. I think the rest of us see DT as a killer but Cox knows he can win, has practiced with him and beat him in competition, add an extensive layoff to that. Cox has to like his chances.
4.) Sacrifice 1 year of cutting for Olympic Glory (I think the fact that its a one year thing makes the cut less of a hurdle than the credit we give it)

Truth be told, none of us "Know" what he will do. but I know I've turned a complete 180 over the past 6 months or so, on where I expect him to be in 2020.

For #2, was he underweight for YD? Or Final X? Or both? 

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20 minutes ago, AZ_wrestling said:

For #2, was he underweight for YD? Or Final X? Or both? 

I don't know his Dogu weight. Hopefully somebody can chime in.
I just saw it circulated he was more than 2 under for Final X (I assume kg)
He looks fit as ever, but 2 (lbs or kilos) under...seems dramatic for a guy as big as he appears.
It doesn't really mean anything obviously, hell, maybe if he bumped up he would stay the size he is now, but you would think he would want to spend some time bulking to compete with bigger guys and get adjusted to that higher weight. It's so very hard on the ole gas tank the heavier you go.
Lol the more I type the more I realize he is going down and I was silly a few months back when I made a similar thread

Edited by spladle08

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On 7/15/2019 at 9:32 PM, scramble said:

1. If J'Den goes up he can put 10 pounds on and he will have the weight.  I doubt the strength is to much different.  There is no clear favorite with Snyder.  The two of them have been pretty even since high school.  J'Den is a bad matchup for KS in the since he can wrestle outside, but JS is a bad style match for J'Den in that he attacks the ankle a lot.  Which is J'Dens week point.  

2. He may go down, but it will be a big pull.  Taylor will give him a tough go this time.  I will be pulling for J'Den but that cut combined with Taylor's motor and it will be tough. 

3. I watched Ringers matches from this weekend.  He is tough but after a few times watching them I don't think he beats Dake. Dake is so low to the ground. A lot of Ringers set ups come from shiffting his oppoonts weight to one foot and attaking.  In other words he pushes (i.e. post or elbow pass) rather than pulling (i.e. sweep single or snaps to a score). Dake is a stump.  I don't see ringer moving him and getting the angles he often creates.  And Dake is freak strong.  Dake will be our Rep.  However, ringer will get there and get his medals in the near future. 

I want to see a good match, so hopefully their matches have decent refs who make Dake get up and wrestle rather than block out for 5:30.  Similar to the last time he wrestled the champ.

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Doesn’t matter. He won’t make the team at any weight. 
Lol yea but when somebody says these 4 guys wont win an NBA title next year, Harden, Griffin, Kyrie, Tom Brady, even though its true. Its worth a "wrong sport"

I agree though, doubt he makes it. But close 2nd to Cox wouldn't surprise me.

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I would say very distant second if he even gets there. I can’t think of a worse possible matchup for Ringer than Cox. As if it weren’t enough that he is a relative (to Cox) plodder, undersized, and a horrible style matchup who relies on controlling ties and horsing guys to win (he does neither with Cox), he is just not as good. 

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I would say very distant second if he even gets there. I can’t think of a worse possible matchup for Ringer than Cox. As if it weren’t enough that he is a relative (to Cox) plodder, undersized, and a horrible style matchup who relies on controlling ties and horsing guys to win (he does neither with Cox), he is just not as good. 

100% agree. When I consider the matchups he could potentially have DT, MyMar, Nickal, Downey, Heflin, Zahid, I can see him winning on greatness + strength, or at least being very competitive But in no way, can I see him beating Cox.

Bigger, stronger, faster, wrestling almost the same style ....he's just so damn good. I don't see anyone at 86kg beating him, but I do want to see Taylor's approach.

 

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52 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

100% agree. When I consider the matchups he could potentially have DT, MyMar, Nickal, Downey, Heflin, Zahid, I can see him winning on greatness + strength, or at least being very competitive But in no way, can I see him beating Cox.

Bigger, stronger, faster, wrestling almost the same style ....he's just so damn good. I don't see anyone at 86kg beating him, but I do want to see Taylor's approach.

 

I think his approach will be to push the pace really hard and test the gas tank after a tough cut. I think at 86kg Cox will be vulnerable the 2nd day of making scratch  

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I think his approach will be to push the pace really hard and test the gas tank after a tough cut. I think at 86kg Cox will be vulnerable the 2nd day of making scratch  
I understand the thinking but Cox is just so positionally sound, I question Taylor's ability to get to his legs and create those positions he thrives in. We all know foreign wrestlers have that mentality of create action off your opponents shot and "getting to the legs" is usually only half the battle. I think that is a big factor in the rise of DT he's just so good in those scrambly situations it's just not fair, and its exhausting. If he can't create these spots with Cox. I see it being a cruise control victory.

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