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J' Den will take out Snyder at the Olympic Trials

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

If Snyder says he takes 2 out of three from Cox why would anyone doubt it to be true. It isn't like Snyder needs to make something like this up. I believe him. 

Because I doubt Snyder said as much, he is a pretty humble competitor. I'm not saying he didn't say it but I am asking for verification that he did, that's all.

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1 hour ago, 2td3nf said:

What about the weight cut? Wasn’t 86 brutal for J’den even with day before weigh in? Now he has to hold that cut and compete too.  I don’t know, maybe he can do it. But nonetheless, he is meeting with his coaches next week to discuss this and then J’den will decide.  Sounds like he doesn’t even know himself which weight he’s going yet. 

He was within spitting distance of 86 kg while training for 92 kg this year, as he has famously stated in a recent interview. Ben Askren, who knows J'Den better than anyone here, believes J'Den will go to 86 kg and thinks the cut won't be a deterrent to moving down. Then there's the fact that Cox is really not very tall. The evidence strongly points to a tough but doable cut to me. He will have to atrophy his body some, obviously, but whatever he gives up in size and strength, he will gain in speed and quickness, which is a scary thought given how Cox already moves.

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Cox is arguably the best defensive wrestler in the world right now.
DT is arguably the best scrambler and scorer in the world. 
Snyder while obviously still very  formidable has seemingly peaked and is no longer the feared opponent he once was.  You could argue that he is on the decline.
If Cox has to choose who he would rather face in a winner take all series to go to the Olympics  I tend to think he would rather face Snyder. And with the cut that he would have to undertake to make 86 I think 97 makes more sense. 


You tend to argue a lot.

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On 7/22/2019 at 1:50 PM, PRyan2012 said:

Well according to Snyder in a interview yesterday on track wresting Cox is the toughest wrestler he is currently facing in the US and even said Sad and Cox are the toughest two wrestlers he has wrestled currently wrestling. From what I can gather from his interview he is winning 2 out of 3 from Cox and it appears from weights 86k -125k that Cox is the only one who can steal a match from him. 

this is where i read the snyder interview - no idea if it's true , doubt snyder would say that, and doubt cox is losing 2 of 3 from snyder anyways

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Didn't we discuss this 3 months ago.

I think he goes down.

Doesnt matter, he can beat either guy.

I wonder if he matches up better with Saduleav or Yaz though.

 

Yaz is other worldly talent but gasses (Cox doesn't have the highest output style)....would that underhook be effective or is Cox too savy... hmm

 

Saduleav is ok in a plodding match, however the talent and athleticism is there, and I think it'd be a barn burner, super low scoring affair....

 

...... dangit bring on the next tournament

 

 

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I think some people are over reacting to Snyder's loss to Sharifov. I read someone even refer to him now as "a gamer". That is unreal. 

Similarly, I think some people are over reacting the other way with Cox. His optimal weight class is a non Olympic 92kg. Nobody changes weights so easily that predicting them to beat World Champions like it is a given makes any sense to me. 

Cox would need a lot more power to convert on Snyder, imo. I would still be favoring Captain America. 

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8 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I think some people are over reacting to Snyder's loss to Sharifov. I read someone even refer to him now as "a gamer". That is unreal. 

Similarly, I think some people are over reacting the other way with Cox. His optimal weight class is a non Olympic 92kg. Nobody changes weights so easily that predicting them to beat World Champions like it is a given makes any sense to me. 

Cox would need a lot more power to convert on Snyder, imo. I would still be favoring Captain America. 

Totally agree that people are over reacting to Snyder’s loss to an Olympic champion. I’ve seen some on here say that this 23 year old has peaked and is now on the downslide. Recentcy bias is a powerful thing. 

On the other hand I don’t know that people are over reacting to Cox. It’s not just the world win but the eye test. It is very very obvious he has jumped levels since moving to the OTC. I believe people are basing their judgements on that more so than this year’s gold. 

That said if he goes 97, I personally don’t think I could pick a winner. At least not right now. Would have to see him (Cox) compete at 97.  Will be very interesting to see which weight he chooses. 

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I think some people are over reacting to Snyder's loss to Sharifov. I read someone even refer to him now as "a gamer". That is unreal. 
Similarly, I think some people are over reacting the other way with Cox. His optimal weight class is a non Olympic 92kg. Nobody changes weights so easily that predicting them to beat World Champions like it is a given makes any sense to me. 
Cox would need a lot more power to convert on Snyder, imo. I would still be favoring Captain America. 
I think i led the charge on "Jden will beat Snyder" nothing has changed for me, I still think he's better. However youre 100% right on the fact that the average fan, saw the results from last weekend and now assume Jden is 10points better...

The reaction to Snyders loss is simply people being unfamiliar with international opponents. I personally thought he would lose the match going in.

Just an unimportant loss, the Karimi win for Cox however was super important. The ease in that one, coupled with Snyder not looking exceptional in the bronze, reinforced my belief.

I still think Cox goes down and has no trouble making the team. But if he goes up, i think the matches get a little closer as his stronger opponents do a little better job defensively, but I still dont see him getting taken down (and I dont have much faith in Snyders offense) we will see

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Snyder is a vertical wrestler.....everyone thought the best vertical wrestler in the world at 97.....he just lost to another vertical wrestler. I don't think that's "overreacting". 

Unless something drastic happens Sadulaev will own Snyder. His scrambling ability is just far superior to Snyder's offense. 

Let's not crown J'den yet. He won a watered down 92 weight....but he dominated it. 

I believe people are drastically underestimating the strength transition from 92 to 97. Also....it's not like J'den is just wrestling a guy at 97. He's wrestling the strongest 97kg wrestler at the weight. Everyone seems to have a plan until a super strong opponent grabs ahold of you. 

As for J'den and Sadulaev.....there's so many facets to Sadulaev's game that J'den has never seen wrestling any other opponent. Strength, size, speed, awareness....and the best gut wrench this world has ever seen. J'den is phenomenal.....but he is 0-2 against Sharifov and Sadulaev is light years better than Sharifov. 

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16 minutes ago, MrDream said:

Snyder is a vertical wrestler.....everyone thought the best vertical wrestler in the world at 97.....he just lost to another vertical wrestler. I don't think that's "overreacting". 

Unless something drastic happens Sadulaev will own Snyder. His scrambling ability is just far superior to Snyder's offense. 

Let's not crown J'den yet. He won a watered down 92 weight....but he dominated it. 

I believe people are drastically underestimating the strength transition from 92 to 97. Also....it's not like J'den is just wrestling a guy at 97. He's wrestling the strongest 97kg wrestler at the weight. Everyone seems to have a plan until a super strong opponent grabs ahold of you. 

As for J'den and Sadulaev.....there's so many facets to Sadulaev's game that J'den has never seen wrestling any other opponent. Strength, size, speed, awareness....and the best gut wrench this world has ever seen. J'den is phenomenal.....but he is 0-2 against Sharifov and Sadulaev is light years better than Sharifov. 

Your two lines bolded above echo my feelings. J'Den winning 92kg against that 92 field is not an indication in and of itself that he can beat Kyle Snyder at 97kg. I think many comments come from what Lurker said, recency bias. 

 

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Kyle Snyder, I just realized, won in 2015 with a tie score, won 2016 by 1 point, and one in 2017 by one point.  His wins were too close.   That would be the only thing I can think of that says he is not there anymore.  He was beaten soundly in 2018 and beaten this year 5-2.  I'm not saying Cox can beat him.  I think that is a stretch too far.  But Snyder is not the powerhouse we all made him to be because he squeaked out some championships.  I'm a big supporter of Snyder, but looking at those finals scores, yes he beat them but only by the narrowest of margins.  I think he is our guy at 97 and here's hoping he turns the corner and blasts through the weight class all the way. 

mspart

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13 minutes ago, mspart said:

Kyle Snyder, I just realized, won in 2015 with a tie score, won 2016 by 1 point, and one in 2017 by one point.  His wins were too close.   That would be the only thing I can think of that says he is not there anymore.  He was beaten soundly in 2018 and beaten this year 5-2.  I'm not saying Cox can beat him.  I think that is a stretch too far.  But Snyder is not the powerhouse we all made him to be because he squeaked out some championships.  I'm a big supporter of Snyder, but looking at those finals scores, yes he beat them but only by the narrowest of margins.  I think he is our guy at 97 and here's hoping he turns the corner and blasts through the weight class all the way. 

mspart

Yeah, but look at who he beat. I would consider those guys better than the guys Cox beat. Also, he isn't the one changing weight in this scenario, that would be J'Den. 

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I hope Cox goes 97 for 3 reasons:

1) out of every American who made the team this year, Cox makes me the most nervous when it comes to how his body will react to a sizeable cut.

2) assuming he can put on enough good weight over the next year I can’t think of a bigger headline Olympic match than Cox-Sadulaev...especially because in order for it to happen Cox will first have to beat Snyder in 2 out of 3. 

3) If Cox goes down to 86 I think Cox he’ll beat Taylor, and I want Taylor to get his shot at Olympic gold. At 29 this should realistically be his last shot. Even though I’m no PSU fan and DT can rub me the wrong way sometimes, I think it would be kind of tragic if never made an Olympic team. 

Think about how insanely hyped the potential finals could be next year at 74-97:

74: Dake-Sidakov

86: Taylor-Yazdani

97: Cox-Sadulaev

Wow

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Wherever Cox goes he needs to be wiped down thoroughly at the break and maybe even multiple times during the match.  He sweats so profusely (no doubt in part to muscle mass) that his opponents have a hard time holding onto him.  It amounts to an unfair advantage.

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43 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Yeah, but look at who he beat. I would consider those guys better than the guys Cox beat. Also, he isn't the one changing weight in this scenario, that would be J'Den. 

Snyder's 3 finals match opponents were much better than anybody JDen has faced. Gads, Gaz and Sad was an amazing feat. And like the someone just said Cox is 0-2 against Sharipov. I only see Cox at 189. If he does the weight thing right I think he overwhelms the field at 189. Then no more cutting after 2020. I think our team will be :

Fix

Yianni

Dake

Cox

Snyder

Gwiz/Varner:-) ..just kidding on Varner

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12 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

this is where i read the snyder interview - no idea if it's true , doubt snyder would say that, and doubt cox is losing 2 of 3 from snyder anyways

I said from what I can gather from the interview. They were at least splitting their simulation matches. At least. Snyder said that from 86k-125k Jden gives him the best go. 

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

I wonder if Cassar or Steveson can give Gwiz a match next year. 

I don't think Cassar has decided yet. But rumors are that he is going 213. Stevenson's learning curve would give him the spot but he has had some issues that could affect his training. 

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39 minutes ago, MDogg said:

I hope Cox goes 97 for 3 reasons:

1) out of every American who made the team this year, Cox makes me the most nervous when it comes to how his body will react to a sizeable cut.

2) assuming he can put on enough good weight over the next year I can’t think of a bigger headline Olympic match than Cox-Sadulaev...especially because in order for it to happen Cox will first have to beat Snyder in 2 out of 3. 

3) If Cox goes down to 86 I think Cox he’ll beat Taylor, and I want Taylor to get his shot at Olympic gold. At 29 this should realistically be his last shot. Even though I’m no PSU fan and DT can rub me the wrong way sometimes, I think it would be kind of tragic if never made an Olympic team. 

Think about how insanely hyped the potential finals could be next year at 74-97:

74: Dake-Sidakov

86: Taylor-Yazdani

97: Cox-Sadulaev

Wow

Those finals would definitely fun to watch!

Just sad to see someone like Romanov stop wrestling so early in his career. With the emergence of the Russian lighter weights the 2020 Russian team could have been absolutely loaded....

57kg: Uguev

65kg: Romanov

74kg: Sidakov

86kg: Naifonov/Zhabrailov

97kg: Sadulaev

125kg: Khizriev

They legit could win 4 gold medals with that team. Crazy thing is Rashidov still might win gold at 65! LOL!

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28 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

Wherever Cox goes he needs to be wiped down thoroughly at the break and maybe even multiple times during the match.  He sweats so profusely (no doubt in part to muscle mass) that his opponents have a hard time holding onto him.  It amounts to an unfair advantage.

He can lose  10lbs in a 1 hour workout another reason why he will go 86.

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6 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

I think some people are over reacting to Snyder's loss to Sharifov. I read someone even refer to him now as "a gamer". That is unreal. 

Similarly, I think some people are over reacting the other way with Cox. His optimal weight class is a non Olympic 92kg. Nobody changes weights so easily that predicting them to beat World Champions like it is a given makes any sense to me. 

Cox would need a lot more power to convert on Snyder, imo. I would still be favoring Captain America. 

How do you view the loss?  A fluke, meaningless..?

Although I think it's crazy to think his skills are declining, his competitors may be catching up to him.

He's always taken the odd loss here and there, but has usually been stellar at Worlds/Olympics.

That said, I think Sadulaev is a tier above him, and Sharifov isn't much, if at all, below him.

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3 hours ago, PRyan2012 said:

I said from what I can gather from the interview. They were at least splitting their simulation matches. At least. Snyder said that from 86k-125k Jden gives him the best go. 

I wonder why he's going live with 86ers?  Cox, of course, but even Taylor isn't big enough to be very useful as a partner, no?

Also interesting that Cox gives him a tougher match than Gwiz.  Even prior to starting his cut, he's probably giving up at least 15 kg, if not more.  Unless Gwiz walks around well below 125, and that seems unlikely.

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3 hours ago, PRyan2012 said:

Snyder's 3 finals match opponents were much better than anybody JDen has faced. Gads, Gaz and Sad was an amazing feat. And like the someone just said Cox is 0-2 against Sharipov. I only see Cox at 189. If he does the weight thing right I think he overwhelms the field at 189. Then no more cutting after 2020. I think our team will be :

Fix

Yianni

Dake

Cox

Snyder

Gwiz/Varner:-) ..just kidding on Varner

Although it makes for a ridiculously entertaining OTT, a six man wrestling team is just depressing.

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