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hammerlockthree

Is Yianni competing to affect the arbitration?

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Any of Yianni's results should have no influence in the arbitration process. Also-Yianni and Zain aren't even ranked in the top 20 for the seeding points so that's a no too. 

I believe Yianni is filling his schedule to prepare for his 2020 olympic run...I'd be really surprised if he wrestles a full college season.

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46 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Sorry if this was covered in another topic, but is Yianni's crowded schedule an attempt to affect the arbitration? Is there any reason that it would? Can he be seeded at Worlds? Would Zain inherit this advantage?

 

How do you believe Yianni's schedule might affect the arbitration?

FWIW I can almost guarantee that the arbitrator has no personal interest in freestyle wrestling. It would be like you being presented with some obscure dispute about the final spot on the synchronized swimming team.

Edited by Katie

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There's literally no way his competing will affect arbitration, and I would be willing to be a month's salary he and the FLWC team are not operating under the hope it will.  They know better.

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1 hour ago, Katie said:

How do you believe Yianni's schedule might affect the arbitration?

FWIW I can almost guarantee that the arbitrator has no personal interest in freestyle wrestling. It would be like you being presented with some obscure dispute about the final spot on the synchronized swimming team.

Actually, arbitrators are generally chosen based upon their expertise in the subject matter of the dispute. The problem that sometimes occurs, especially in very arcane or specific areas, is that all of the limited pool of potential arbitrators are familiar with one or both of the parties. This very well might be the case here.

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23 minutes ago, fightingsioux said:

Actually, arbitrators are generally chosen based upon their expertise in the subject matter of the dispute. The problem that sometimes occurs, especially in very arcane or specific areas, is that all of the limited pool of potential arbitrators are familiar with one or both of the parties. This very well might be the case here.

Do you know how arbitrators are chosen? Usually an independent agency (like the AAA) puts together a list of potential arbitrators. The parties to the dispute then strike names from the list until there is one left. It is in interest of the parties to the dispute to strike the names of arbitrators they feel would not give the case a fair hearing. That process alone tends to weed out arbitrators who have publicly shown any personal interest in any of the parties to the dispute. (Obviously I don't have any inside knowledge about the present dispute.)

But, more generally, I doubt there exists a pool of potential arbitrators who are familiar with freestyle wrestling. Why? Because I doubt there have been a sufficient number of freestyle wrestling arbitrations for such a pool to exist.  And even if such a pool did exist, the chances are incredibly low that the arbitrators who have developed that skill have any personal interest in freestyle. They would most likely be random arbitrators who fell into an obscure specialty.

That said, the arbitrator in this case very likely has experience with sports-related disputes in general.

Edited by Katie

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2 minutes ago, Katie said:

Do you know how arbitrators are chosen? Usually an independent agency (like the AAA) puts together a list of potential arbitrators. The parties to the dispute then strike names from the list until there is one left. It is in interest of the parties to the dispute to strike the names of arbitrators they feel would not give the case a fair hearing. That process alone tends to weed out arbitrators who have publicly shown any personal interest in any of the parties to the dispute. (Obviously I don't have any inside knowledge about the present dispute.)

But, more generally, I doubt there exists a pool of potential arbitrators who are familiar with freestyle wrestling. Why? Because I doubt there have been a sufficient number of freestyle wrestling arbitrations for such a pool to exist.  And even if such a pool did exist, the chances are incredibly low that the arbitrators who have developed that skill have any personal interest in freestyle. They would most likely be random arbitrators who fell into an obscure specialty.

That said, the arbitrator in this case very likely has experience with sports disputes in general.

Yes, I do know how arbitrators are chosen. In this particular case, both parties very likely wanted someone with at least some knowledge of amateur wrestling. An arbitrator is an expert in the subject of the dispute, has had formal training in arbitration, but contrary to what many people think they do not have to be lawyers (though many are). I think the organizations involved reached out very widely in the field and came up with a person or persons who do have some wrestling knowledge but who both disputing parties trust.

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2 minutes ago, fightingsioux said:

Yes, I do know how arbitrators are chosen. In this particular case, both parties very likely wanted someone with at least some knowledge of amateur wrestling. An arbitrator is an expert in the subject of the dispute, has had formal training in arbitration, but contrary to what many people think they do not have to be lawyers (though many are). I think the organizations involved reached out very widely in the field and came up with a person or persons who do have some wrestling knowledge but who both disputing parties trust.

Not quite. There is no requirement that an arbitrator be a subject matter expert. The only qualifications you need to arbitrate a particular dispute are: (1) meeting the requirements of the arbitration agency that maintains pools of potential arbitrators; and (2) being picked by the parties to the dispute.

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1 minute ago, Katie said:

Not quite. There is no requirement that an arbitrator be a subject matter expert. The only qualifications you need to arbitrate a particular dispute are: (1) meeting the requirements of the arbitration agency that maintains pools of potential arbitrators; and (2) being picked by the parties to the dispute.

Don't know if it's a thing here to quickly Google and then try to get the last word, but not trying to hostilely argue with you. Yes, an arbitrator in a specific case will always be an expert, or at least very familiar with the subject matter. And most disputing parties pick people to arbitrate who know what they're talking about.

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2 minutes ago, fightingsioux said:

Don't know if it's a thing here to quickly Google and then try to get the last word, but not trying to hostilely argue with you. Yes, an arbitrator in a specific case will always be an expert, or at least very familiar with the subject matter. And most disputing parties pick people to arbitrate who know what they're talking about.

If you think I used google then you probably know less about this than I do.

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On 8/2/2019 at 3:11 PM, fightingsioux said:

Yes, I do know how arbitrators are chosen. In this particular case, both parties very likely wanted someone with at least some knowledge of amateur wrestling. An arbitrator is an expert in the subject of the dispute, has had formal training in arbitration, but contrary to what many people think they do not have to be lawyers (though many are). I think the organizations involved reached out very widely in the field and came up with a person or persons who do have some wrestling knowledge but who both disputing parties trust.

This article identifies the arbitrator.

As I expected, he has experience disputes with sports disputes in general, but has never before arbitrated a wrestling dispute. (According to this link, he's previously arbitrated disputes involving bobsled & skeleton, Paralympics (track & field), gymnastics, judo, speedskating, diving, taekwondo,  volleyball, track & field, and table tennis -- but not wrestling.)

Edited by Katie

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3 minutes ago, Katie said:

According to this article, the arbitrator was Matthew Mitten.

As I expected, he has experience disputes with sports disputes in general, but has never before arbitrated a wrestling dispute. (According to this link, he's previously arbitrated disputes involving bobsled & skeleton, Paralympics (track & field), gymnastics, judo, speedskating, diving, taekwondo,  volleyball, track & field, and table tennis -- but not wrestling.)

I was coming here to post his faculty biography. He's an experienced sports arbitrator and teaches sports law classes at Marquette. Just so there's some grist for the conspiracy mill, he went to THE Ohio State University.

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In his book Sports Law and Regulation, Professor Mitten discusses numerous cases involving wrestling, most notably the Sieracki/Lindland 76 kg GC controversy for the 2000 Olympics spot. Many others. He has also been involved in the tOSU sexual abuse case involving wrestling team members from the '70s and '80s. And he has written extensively about gender equity issues in high school wrestling. I could go on and on.

Oh, and by the way, he was an excellent high school wrestler in Toledo.

He is quite familiar with amateur wrestling.

Boom.

Off the subject, it's weirdly fascinating how message board posters will continue to beat a dead horse because they perceive disagreement as a personal insult.

Edited by fightingsioux

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51 minutes ago, fightingsioux said:

In his book Sports Law and Regulation, Professor Mitten discusses numerous cases involving wrestling, most notably the Sieracki/Lindland 76 kg GC controversy for the 2000 Olympics spot. Many others. He has also been involved in the tOSU sexual abuse case involving wrestling team members from the '70s and '80s.

He is quite familiar with amateur wrestling.

 

You disagreed with my prediction that the arbitrator would have experience with sports disputes in general, but no experience with wrestling disputes in particular. You also seemed to disagree with my prediction that the arbitrator would have no personal interest in freestyle. You went so far as to say that the arbitrator "very well" might be "familiar with" one or both of the parties.

After finding out that the guy has never arbitrated a wrestling dispute before, you claim to feel vindicated because he was one of four people who contributed to a casebook that mentions at least one wrestling arbitration and a sex abuse case.

Sure man.

Edited by Katie

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He was a wrestler, been involved in wrestling cases his whole career, was almost certainly familiar with the Zain/Yanni situation but both sides were comfortable with him arbitrating.

I'm a new poster here, so I don't know you. But another poster directly said that you like to argue, adding nothing.

I agree. Done with you.

 

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15 minutes ago, fightingsioux said:

He was a wrestler, been involved in wrestling cases his whole career, was almost certainly familiar with the Zain/Yanni situation but both sides were comfortable with him arbitrating.

I'm a new poster here, so I don't know you. But another poster directly said that you like to argue, adding nothing.

I agree. Done with you.

 

I highly doubt the arbitrator has any personal interest in freestyle.

At any rate, good luck with your posting.

Edited by Katie

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