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Perry

Fix should have been on the backside

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2 hours ago, npope said:

So, is it possible for both wrestlers to go to their backs at the exact same moment and be there for the requisite one second? If so, what is it - double loss? You are advocating for a strict application of the rules without any common sense. I would argue that common sense has a place in reffing - no matter what the rules explicitly say.

I suspect you tried to come up with something so absurd it couldn't possibly be a rule but there is a rule to cover your 1 in a million situation and I would apply it as written. 

 

Others might just give the win to the aggressor. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Zebra said:

I suspect you tried to come up with something so absurd it couldn't possibly be a rule but there is a rule to cover your 1 in a million situation and I would apply it as written. 

 

Others might just give the win to the aggressor. 

 

I see what you did there. But did anything I said relate to just giving a win to the aggressor, or were we talking about a specific situation where the aggressor takes a risk in order to score, and then smartly removes themselves from the situation in order to not just hand over a win to the opponent. I’ll use the word dramatic again, do you want to continue to be over dramatic on the particular situation we are talking about, or do you just want to talk about simply the particular situation we are talking about?

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In this case I was just being a smart aleck. 

 

I am serious though I firmly believe all matches should be adjudicated completely unbiased and as written. Always and every time. 

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1 hour ago, Zebra said:

I suspect you tried to come up with something so absurd it couldn't possibly be a rule but there is a rule to cover your 1 in a million situation and I would apply it as written. 

 

Others might just give the win to the aggressor. 

 

Right - could never happen, I guess...except it did to me while I was reffing the match. One kid hit a spladle and they both flattened out on their backs on the mat, one guy trying to pin the other guy while the latter tried to keep his blades off the mat. I called the pin on the guy who actually hit the spladle as his back had my attention at the moment, although they were both flat. I don't know what rule you think exists to cover that one, but I'd like to see it.

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38 minutes ago, Zebra said:

In this case I was just being a smart aleck. 

 

I am serious though I firmly believe all matches should be adjudicated completely unbiased and as written. Always and every time. 

I don’t know why you keep throwing bias in. Bias has nothing to do with it. 

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3 hours ago, boconnell said:

That's not a pin.  It's a guy winning by MD.  Our sport has tons of controversial endings and outcomes.  This isn't one of them.

As a Mizzou fan, I have no problem with the ref not calling the defensive pin because the better wrestler won.  But you're in denial if you're claiming that's not a pin.

Edited by KCMO2

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10 hours ago, Zebra said:

In this case I was just being a smart aleck. 

 

I am serious though I firmly believe all matches should be adjudicated completely unbiased and as written. Always and every time. 

I'll let it drop after this post, but here's what I need from an official: admit that you blow calls repeatedly. Coaches -- who on average have as much knowledge of the rules and their application as officials -- have to swallow their pride and admit they are wrong multiple times a match so as not to receive bench warnings, etc. Officials usually won't. Most of the time they cop out and play the "it's a judgement call" get-out-of-jail-free card. It's not like the opposing coaches can convene and issue a warning on the ref. Just admit that you are as likely to blow a call as a coach is to see the situation incorrectly.

Edited by jackwebster

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2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I'll let it drop after this post, but here's what I need from an official: admit that you blow calls repeatedly. Coaches -- who on average have as much knowledge of the rules and their application as officials -- have to swallow their pride and admit they are wrong multiple times a match so as not to receive bench warnings, etc. Officials usually won't. Most of the time they cop out and play the "it's a judgement call" get-out-of-jail-free card. It's not like the opposing coaches can convene and issue a warning on the ref. Just admit that you are as likely to blow a call as a coach is to see the situation incorrectly.

There is a reason for this beyond a ref’s Pride  

As soon as they admit they make mistakes, their credibility goes out the window. While everyone knows people make mistakes in their profession (no exceptions) when it is a highly emotional and impactful decision, staying quiet, for the sake of long term credibility, makes sense. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

There is a reason for this beyond a ref’s Pride  

As soon as they admit they make mistakes, their credibility goes out the window. While everyone knows people make mistakes in their profession (no exceptions) when it is a highly emotional and impactful decision, staying quiet, for the sake of long term credibility, makes sense. 

 

I would think the opposite?  Someone able to admit their mistakes is more open to improve. To me I would hold a lot more credible someone who said yeah I think I missed that one, vs someone who knew they made a mistake but won’t admit it. 

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

I would think the opposite?  Someone able to admit their mistakes is more open to improve. To me I would hold a lot more credible someone who said yeah I think I missed that one, vs someone who knew they made a mistake but won’t admit it. 

Theoretically, but that isn’t how the world works

 

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To take it further I’ll give an example from my coaching days. Blood round for state tournament. We get behind while opponent is on feet and hands. We’re there a good four to five seconds before opponents stands up and cuts away. Never a takedown awarded. I went to conference and ref told me TD criteria was never met. I pulled out rulebook to show picture of exact position we were in. The ref refused to look at it. 

 

On the other hand, match at junior nationals. We get a takedown straight to trap arm. We turn him left for two, right for two, then almost immediately after the second turn the red whistles and stands up.  I went to conference and asked the official, can you tell me why you stood us up when we had just scored twice and still in good position with the trap arm. His response: I have no idea. I blew that one. 

So the question is, which ref, both making a big mistake, would you feel is more credible?  

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4 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Theoretically, but that isn’t how the world works

 

I’d have to respectfully disagree. I can say for certain myself and most of the coaches I’ve associated hold higher regard  officials who don’t have a problem saying yeah I blew that one. Maybe we’ve just had different experiences. 

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