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nhs67

Pan Am Games Draws

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15 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Cept for Marable. :)

Gomez is a world Silver. .

Look at JBs wiki, scroll to the bottom and be surprised by the amount of 1 takedown matches hes won over people who have STILL never even medaled .

Love me some JB, pay attention to all things USA but I think the. decline is being greatly exaggerated.

Is there one other person youd favor over "current" Chamizo in a h2h? From the last 10 years?

He's the only one (in my book... not a Sidakov believer) that has the "advantage"... he's still just as good as ever before

 

You know, I actually think we are in agreement for the most part. My whole argument was against the prediction that JB was going to blow Gomez out like Housebuye predicted. From what you're saying, I think you agree with me. I do think Burroughs has more close matches now than he had in his "prime." But you're right that he had some close ones then too. I just don't get the overwhelming confidence that a lot of fans have that he will win gold. You see this casual confidence a lot from Pyles at flo and he's been burned repeatedly by it. Chamizo was going to be "no problem" for Burroughs. If you had any objective analysis heading into that match, you knew it was going to be tight. Worlds last year was also going to be "no problem" and he lost a close one to an unheralded Russian. IMAR was going to be no problem and he ended up outwrestling JB for the majority of the first 2 matches and took one of them.

I think we both agree that JB is a title contender, but he's going to be in a bunch of battles that can go either way. He's not going to blow through people like many people (like Housebuye) might expect.

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32 minutes ago, qc8223 said:

You know, I actually think we are in agreement for the most part. My whole argument was against the prediction that JB was going to blow Gomez out like Housebuye predicted. From what you're saying, I think you agree with me. I do think Burroughs has more close matches now than he had in his "prime." But you're right that he had some close ones then too. I just don't get the overwhelming confidence that a lot of fans have that he will win gold. You see this casual confidence a lot from Pyles at flo and he's been burned repeatedly by it. Chamizo was going to be "no problem" for Burroughs. If you had any objective analysis heading into that match, you knew it was going to be tight. Worlds last year was also going to be "no problem" and he lost a close one to an unheralded Russian. IMAR was going to be no problem and he ended up outwrestling JB for the majority of the first 2 matches and took one of them.

I think we both agree that JB is a title contender, but he's going to be in a bunch of battles that can go either way. He's not going to blow through people like many people (like Housebuye) might expect.

I only think  he will beat Gomez. Possibly by a larger margin than last time. A tech from JB isn’t expected, but it is possible. My logic is as follows:

1. JB has never lost to anyone twice

2. JB has lost occasionally to guys he is better than. Gomez, for as good as he is, is the 2nd worst guy JB has lost to. 

3. JB is pissed about it. He has been vocal about not liking that Chamizo trains in the US. I imagine after that match he may have thought the same about Gomez

4. JB can gameplan for him. He has so many tools.  He now knows Gomez is a threat

5. Gomez is not the size of most 74s. 

6. JB, when at his best, only loses to super athletes. Gomez athletically is not on the tier with Tsargush, Gedoev, Chamizo or Sidakov. 

To your other point - I would love for him to win world gold, but he will have to go through Sidakov and Chamizo to do so. I think he beaten Chamizo but I’m not confident he beats Sidakov. I do like that he has felt Sidakov and the match was highly competitive 

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21 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Why in the crap can I not find any brackets for this?

Easily one of the 5 biggest freestyle tournaments in the western hemisphere and nothing. 

Always check the UWW events page

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/events

direct link here

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/event/pan-american-games?tab=brackets&weight-category=9efb7fe5-b7e3-11e9-9741-080027548b1b

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24 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Why in the crap can I not find any brackets for this?

Easily one of the 5 biggest freestyle tournaments in the western hemisphere and nothing. 

UWW go to events click on PanAms

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It's great to see Mijian Lopez is still competing. 2020 will be his 5th Olympics. It's a bummer that he did not get the gold back in 04, but I think he has a VERY good chance of being the first man to win 4 wrestling gold medals in the Olympics.

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Occasionally I click on the college boards by accident, out of season.... and it always takes me scrolling past 5 or 6 topics of "I hear Lee almost failed chemistry last year", "was Bo better than Cael", "How good would Alabamas football line be had they all wrestled heavy".... to realize im not in the right place.... but always for like 5 seconds i think "wtf guys, lets talk actual wrestling and stuff currently happening"....
Sorry for my wrongly placed dissapointment in threads you guys arent making

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

I only think  he will beat Gomez. Possibly by a larger margin than last time. A tech from JB isn’t expected, but it is possible. My logic is as follows:

1. JB has never lost to anyone twice

2. JB has lost occasionally to guys he is better than. Gomez, for as good as he is, is the 2nd worst guy JB has lost to. 

3. JB is pissed about it. He has been vocal about not liking that Chamizo trains in the US. I imagine after that match he may have thought the same about Gomez

4. JB can gameplan for him. He has so many tools.  He now knows Gomez is a threat

5. Gomez is not the size of most 74s. 

6. JB, when at his best, only loses to super athletes. Gomez athletically is not on the tier with Tsargush, Gedoev, Chamizo or Sidakov. 

To your other point - I would love for him to win world gold, but he will have to go through Sidakov and Chamizo to do so. I think he beaten Chamizo but I’m not confident he beats Sidakov. I do like that he has felt Sidakov and the match was highly competitive 

1. He hasn't even lost to Gomez once yet.

2. JB won the match.

3. Gomez is an American. He wrestled at MSU and is Puerto Rican. Simply not the same as Chamizo who is not a citizen and does not have a history of training here.

4. Gomez can game plan for Burroughs too. 

5. Gomez looked plenty big to me.

6. Gomez is an elite athlete. Are you serious? Far more athletic than Tsargush and Sidakov.

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The greco results were a gold, a silver, two bronzes, a 5th and Coon losing in the first round and not getting pulled back into repechage.

Conder, Hildebrandt and Burkert are all in the Women's finals; the upper weight results aren't posted yet.

Edited by ugarte

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JB by the numbers:

Win-Loss  Total senior freestyle record 179-8, vs. International guys 139-5, vs. USA = 40-3, vs. Russia 20-3, vs. Former Soviet Union 60-4, vs. world gold medalists 18-4, vs. world silver and bronze medalists 36-2, vs. non medalists 125-2 with the two losses being Marable and Imar.  Marable was once a training partner at times, not sure about Imar.  Imar may still be a world medalist in his future.  I think only Dan Gable and John Smith have the same type winning percentage as JB.  The numbers certainly say he hasn't lost much.

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1 hour ago, qc8223 said:

1. He hasn't even lost to Gomez once yet.

2. JB won the match.

3. Gomez is an American. He wrestled at MSU and is Puerto Rican. Simply not the same as Chamizo who is not a citizen and does not have a history of training here.

4. Gomez can game plan for Burroughs too. 

5. Gomez looked plenty big to me.

6. Gomez is an elite athlete. Are you serious? Far more athletic than Tsargush and Sidakov.

I would imagine that Tsargush and Sidakov are pretty darned athletic.

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I watched Coon vs Acosta.  The commentary was in Spanish but I picked up enough to hear them say that Acosta is a Cuban, so that kind of explains why he isn't so bad.  Coon looked kind of disinterested or maybe overlooked him in some way.  Like his hand fighting and and looking for a lock didn't look like he had a sense of urgency.  I think right before he got thrown he realized that he had to pick it up a little more. But no signs of anything close to offense from his feet. The Cub...I mean Chilean countered any of his half assed atte,pts well and controlled the match completely.  

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i didn't watch coon's match, but, fernandez was a 2017 world bronze medalist, so, not a scrub...

it does illustrate that when coon wrestles anyone with any pedigree he is outclassed... i have little doubt that would be different if coon had focused on greco instead of wasting his time in folk for all those years...

 

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

I would imagine that Tsargush and Sidakov are pretty darned athletic.

Everybody at this level is crazy athletic. But Tsargush and Sidakov wrestle a more methodical, slow you down, grind you down style. Lots of control ties. Not a ton of leg attacks. Tsargush liked his Russian tie and would slowly walk down that single leg from there. Sidakov scores most often with his slide by. Gomez wrestles from space and fires off leg attacks. Good straight double from space and has shown a nice knee pull as well. Both attacks rely more on speed and athleticism as well.

The context is important. Housebuye argued that Gomez isn't on the same athletic tier as some of the guys he mentioned. Two of them were wrestlers not known for outstanding athleticism, especially Tsargush. That's why I pushed back. If the list was just Gedeuv and Chamizo I probably wouldn't have said anything.

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I watched a couple of the women's matches on replay.  I saw that one of the women's wrestlers from I think either Colombia or Venezuela hit that nice throw off an inside 2 on 1 that Kolat used to do a lot.  Went straight to the back and got the fall with it.  The women wrestlers are becoming a lot more technical than before, like 7-10 years ago. It used to just be a lot of matches were 30 seconds and whoever happened to be stronger and get a better position would get a quick fall with something you would see in a JV match. The US used to roll over them too pretty easily. Now I saw Conder win her first match by tech fall but the girl she wrestled didn't make it easy, it happened with like 20 seconds left in the match.  Good job to the other Pan Am coaches. Glad to see the depth and talent getting better. 

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15 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I watched Coon vs Acosta.  The commentary was in Spanish but I picked up enough to hear them say that Acosta is a Cuban, so that kind of explains why he isn't so bad.  Coon looked kind of disinterested or maybe overlooked him in some way.  Like his hand fighting and and looking for a lock didn't look like he had a sense of urgency.  I think right before he got thrown he realized that he had to pick it up a little more. But no signs of anything close to offense from his feet. The Cub...I mean Chilean countered any of his half assed atte,pts well and controlled the match completely.  

Thanks for take on this.  I was quite surprised to see him drop that match like he did and get eliminated.  

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Just now, ugarte said:

Yikes. Eierman teched in 1:30. That was rough to watch. Can't say that he had a lot of time to prepare for the match, though.

Standing up on Cuban was not a good idea. 

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Just now, jeffrideal said:

Standing up on Cuban was not a good idea. 

lol nope - instead of giving up the 2 he ended up giving up 4 on the throw and then i think 2 turns off the gutwrench to end the match. so fast that i don't remember it all.

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