Funding the RTCs

[NJDan 1,113]

I understand there is some kind of controversy about RTCs and whether they allow an unfair advantage to college teams that train in the same room.

But my question is how these RTCs get funded.

I gather they have to raise their own money. But wouldn't that mean that the same people who are trying to raise money for the college program-- that is, the head coach-- would be fundraising for the RTC? In other words, Rob Koll or Tom Ryan or Cael Sanderson would be asking for money for both their college program and their RTC program. I would think they'd be calling the same people for both-- who else? Wouldn't that create a conflict? Or are college wrestling programs so flush with donors that they can tell some of them to give to the RTC instead?

[TBar1977 4,608]

Relax, NJDan. They'll probably kill the RTC's off and you'll get your wish to come true. It won't make any bit of difference, but you'll show them who is boss. 

[NJDan 1,113]

Stop being a putz, Tbar. That's not my wish. Love the RTCs. But I do have a question about them.

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by NJDan

[TBar1977 4,608]

17 hours ago, NJDan said:

Stop being a putz, Tbar. That's not my wish. Love the RTCs. But I do have a question about them.

 

Hardly being a putz. People here on the mat.com have been calling them a conduit for cheaters for years. Now coaches are doing it. That only happens when people want to get rid of them No actual evidence req'd.

I loved today's FRL. Pyles said they are only doing it because PSU keeps winning titles. He's right.

Here is what's funny, when questioned Cael said something to the effect of "if they want to get rid of them, go ahead and get rid of them".

Edited August 9, 2019 by TBar1977

[Lurker 2,049]

Man T, you really get offended easy. 

[TripNSweep 796]

I figured that with the RTC there were fewer rules and restrictions like there are for official college boosters who have to usually share with the athletic department general fund.  That's why it's easier to convince donors to give to them, because they know it's going towards helping the wrestling team.  

[tigerfan 228]

5 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I figured that with the RTC there were fewer rules and restrictions like there are for official college boosters who have to usually share with the athletic department general fund.  That's why it's easier to convince donors to give to them, because they know it's going towards helping the wrestling team.  

If you want to support Mizzou wrestling, you are instructed to make the check out to the Missouri Wrestling Foundation (RTC).  They are free to use that money in whatever way the coaches feel will best help the program. I suppose donations through the University still happen occasionally, but most wrestling supporters know how it works.

 

[Sstern 192]

7 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Hardly being a putz. People here on the mat.com have been calling them a conduit for cheaters for years. Now coaches are doing it. That only happens when people want to get rid of them No actual evidence req'd.

I loved today's FRL. Pukes said they are only doing it because PSU keeps winning titles. He's right.

Here is what's funny, when questioned Cael said something to the effect of "if they want to get rid of them, go ahead and get rid of them".

You did not really say that, did you?  You can’t mean it.

[1032004 1,514]

3 hours ago, tigerfan said:

If you want to support Mizzou wrestling, you are instructed to make the check out to the Missouri Wrestling Foundation (RTC).  They are free to use that money in whatever way the coaches feel will best help the program. I suppose donations through the University still happen occasionally, but most wrestling supporters know how it works.

 

I think this illustrates NJDan's point then.   So "all" of the money is technically going to the RTC?   And then can decide on their own how much of it stays with the RTC and how much goes to the college team?

BTW, the Missouri Wrestling Foundation should probably spend some of that money on their website.   Looks like it's from 1995.

[bnwtwg 1,103]

When football, MBB, and the XC/indoor/outdoor track get the conglomerate of scholarships this is how the small sports and their alumni + supporters "fight back" (perhaps there is a better term to use?). I hope every swimming, tennis, gymnastics, and rugby team also has RTCs because playing by the rules has done nothing but see a large removal of our less glamorous collegiate athletic programs through the years.

[NJDan 1,113]

TripNSweep's comment is helpful. I donate a small amount of money to one college wrestling team. Are people saying that some of that money goes to a general pool and winds up funding field hockey or whatnot?

Also, it would seem to me that running an RTC is a lot more expensive per capita than running a college team. College athletes pay tuition (except for the few on full rides or other scholarships) while RTC athletes get paid (or do they)? 

Is there a link somewhere that explains how all this works?

 

 

[TBar1977 4,608]

10 hours ago, Sstern said:

You did not really say that, did you?  You can’t mean it.

I said all of that except for one autocorrect (Pyles' last name was autocorrected) which I have edited to make it reflect what I actually typed last nite. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by TBar1977

[ConnorsDad 596]

17 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Hardly being a putz. People here on the mat.com have been calling them a conduit for cheaters for years. Now coaches are doing it. That only happens when people want to get rid of them No actual evidence req'd.

I loved today's FRL. Pyles said they are only doing it because PSU keeps winning titles. He's right.

Here is what's funny, when questioned Cael said something to the effect of "if they want to get rid of them, go ahead and get rid of them".

They have been great for our International Teams. But when coaches who actually have an RTC are saying there's a problem, there's a problem. It's not like it's just people who don't have one but Rob Koll, John Smith, and so on and so forth. I personally think they should have them they just shouldn't be able to train in the same gym NBA players are not allowed to go practice at their college with the college team so why should wrestling be any different. And whether there's any actual proof or not, nobody believes that there's not some influence exerted on the high school kids from the postgraduate wrestlers. If anybody does they're living in a dream world. Do I think having a Regional Training Center would have changed who has won the last 10 national championships? Not one bit. Does it make the gap between the Haves and Have Nots bigger? Absolutely

[TBar1977 4,608]

ConnorsDad, I think no matter how they redo the whole rtc/club environment, there really won't be any change at all. Not in who the top schools are or in how wide the gap is between them and everyone else. 

[tigerfan 228]

On 8/9/2019 at 9:14 AM, 1032004 said:

I think this illustrates NJDan's point then.   So "all" of the money is technically going to the RTC?   And then can decide on their own how much of it stays with the RTC and how much goes to the college team?

BTW, the Missouri Wrestling Foundation should probably spend some of that money on their website.   Looks like it's from 1995.

This is correct as far as outside donations go, but keep in mind the total fundraising per annum is dwarfed by the amount the athletic dept. allots to support the wrestling team, at least in Mizzou's case.  But there is zero attempt made to separate the resources.  Locker rooms, mats, strength/cardio equipment, entertainment/stereo systems, therapy/rehab equipment, etc. are all intermingled and co-funded to one degree or another.  And everything is located on University property. Mizzou has a stand alone room separated by double doors that is technically the RTC wrestling room, but it's not like all the equipment/facilities listed above that were purchased by the RTC are located in that room nor are RTC athletes exclusively practicing in there.  I really hope none of this supposed to be secret and I'm 100% confident that Brian Smith would never do anything that he thought might be against NCAA rules. 

I will say that over the years, Smith has been very vocal about the support he gets from the athletic dept. to implement these practices.  Perhaps that is what separates the haves from the have nots? If the school doesn't allow programs to share resources like this, it would make it very difficult to compete at the highest level, even if you did have a relatively well-funded RTC.

[gimpeltf 2,086]

Any money donated to the club/RTC can ONLY be used by the club/RTC. Obviously, it can, in part, go to the wrestlers of the college team as expenses or work performed but it CAN NOT be redirected towards the team itself. That would make it a University affinity/booster club. They must be independent. Generally, the "volunteer" coach is paid via the club. Becoming a booster club would mean the school was funding the coach as booster clubs are considered part of the institution. The reverse would be equally true and easier to understand that if the school funded the club then that club is part of university control.

[novalion 5]

On 8/9/2019 at 2:44 PM, bnwtwg said:

When football, MBB, and the XC/indoor/outdoor track get the conglomerate of scholarships this is how the small sports and their alumni + supporters "fight back" (perhaps there is a better term to use?). I hope every swimming, tennis, gymnastics, and rugby team also has RTCs because playing by the rules has done nothing but see a large removal of our less glamorous collegiate athletic programs through the years.

Track has 19 individual events plus 2 relays and Cross Country needs 7 scoring runners and men's T&F/XC gets a total of 12.6 ships, so me thinks you are WAY off base with that one. Obviously, FB, and BB (both men's and women's) get way more ships than they really need.

[novalion 5]

On 8/8/2019 at 9:24 PM, NJDan said:

I understand there is some kind of controversy about RTCs and whether they allow an unfair advantage to college teams that train in the same room.

But my question is how these RTCs get funded.

I gather they have to raise their own money. But wouldn't that mean that the same people who are trying to raise money for the college program-- that is, the head coach-- would be fundraising for the RTC? In other words, Rob Koll or Tom Ryan or Cael Sanderson would be asking for money for both their college program and their RTC program. I would think they'd be calling the same people for both-- who else? Wouldn't that create a conflict? Or are college wrestling programs so flush with donors that they can tell some of them to give to the RTC instead?

Well, college wrestling programs are not flush with donors as every school operates in the red. You are right that the donors are mostly the same people. Not sure why that would create a conflict. The RTCs also raise money thru camps, clinics, etc.