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Lurker

Anything from arbitration?

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

uggggh speaking of re-runs don't want to get in again on the particulars of the last couple minutes....however, "they" didn't correct or change..."he" did.  Out of procedure (and I love the dude, but real is real).  That is the brunt of the issue.

Yeah, but that is his job. To oversee the entire match and to correct any significant scoring issues. It is literally his job description to fix problems like the ones that arose in that match. 

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41 minutes ago, Lurker said:

And there in lies the problem, he corrected out of place of procedure.

But anyway.....

He'd have corrected anyway. Let's assume the three man crew huddles and comes up with a different score that you like better, but the brick still has top be dealt with. That is in the rules that Zain's right to challenge is not forfeited. Once Tucci accepted the brick, he then had to review the sequence for any errors in scoring. Well, that's what he did. 

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41 minutes ago, Lurker said:

And there in lies the problem, he corrected out of place of procedure.

But anyway.....

Exactly, (maybe) 

My error, I forgot how satisfying it is to Rob Koll fans to win when ref screwed up.  In this case someone tried to correct the mishap and is strung up on nearest tree.

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7 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

He'd have corrected anyway. Let's assume the three man crew huddles and comes up with a different score that you like better, but the brick still has top be dealt with. That is in the rules that Zain's right to challenge is not forfeited. Once Tucci accepted the brick, he then had to review the sequence for any errors in scoring. Well, that's what he did. 

So you're against speculation when others are doing it, but use it yourself when you think its making your point stronger?  Understood.  You also forget.....once again....its not a score a like better.  I've told you several times I prefer the result stand.  I'm just seeing where it could not.  That whole reading comprehension thing rears its ugly head again.

Look Tman, we've run our course on this one.  I've laid out a number of times where the procedure was botched.  Rather or not you choose to acknowledge it is up to you. There will be another topic we can "pick a fight" (I always get a chuckle when you say that) soon.

Edited by Lurker

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2 minutes ago, tbert said:

Exactly, (maybe) 

My error, I forgot how satisfying it is to Rob Koll fans to win when ref screwed up.  In this case someone tried to correct the mishap and is strung up on nearest tree.

In case you've forgotten, I've also said numerous I'm neither pro or anti Rob Koll, and I actually would prefer to see the result stand.  

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8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

So you're against speculation when others are doing it, but use it yourself when you think its making your point stronger?  Understood.  You also forget.....once again....its not a score a like better.  I've told you several times I prefer the result stand.  I'm just seeing where it could not.  That whole reading comprehension thing rears its ugly head again.

Look Tman, we've run our course on this one.  I've laid out a number of times where the procedure was botched.  Rather or not you choose to acknowledge it is up to you. There will be another topic we can "pick a fight" (I always get a chuckle when you say that) soon.

I think it was botched too, by the Chair. The referee delegate fixed it. It did not need to go beyond the mat. 

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5 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I think it was botched too, by the Chair. The referee delegate fixed it. It did not need to go beyond the mat. 

We know your stance.  See you on the next one.

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37 minutes ago, Lurker said:

There may be something to this whole Tbar/tbert thing.  I seem to get responses from them clumped real close together.

Yea Sherlock, the FBI could use another good man.

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41 minutes ago, Lurker said:

In case you've forgotten, I've also said numerous I'm neither pro or anti Rob Koll, and I actually would prefer to see the result stand.  

Sorry, I dont buy into that.

 

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25 minutes ago, tbert said:

Sorry, I dont buy into that.

 

I'm not sure why.

He's already said he'd prefer the result stand, but acknowledges there were procedural mistakes.

He's even agreed that Koll's drunk ref allegations were unwarranted.

Because he's not defaming the guy every 15 minutes on various boards, he's a Koll fan?

 

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15 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I'm not sure why.

He's already said he'd prefer the result stand, but acknowledges there were procedural mistakes.

He's even agreed that Koll's drunk ref allegations were unwarranted.

Because he's not defaming the guy every 15 minutes on various boards, he's a Koll fan?

 

White Knight to the rescue!!!!

Yep defamed the guy who defamed the official and lied about the match....once again, it's all on video.

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I think it was botched too, by the Chair. The referee delegate fixed it. It did not need to go beyond the mat. 

It didn’t NEED to go beyond the mat, but it has and there is a perfectly legitimate process for taking it there. Isn’t that part of your stance, that there is a process for things that should be followed and now you’re against a different process being followed? Just say that you don’t like them pursuing the process for arbitration for personal reasons and leave it at that. They are, however, following said legitimate process.

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

He'd have corrected anyway. Let's assume the three man crew huddles and comes up with a different score that you like better, but the brick still has top be dealt with. That is in the rules that Zain's right to challenge is not forfeited. Once Tucci accepted the brick, he then had to review the sequence for any errors in scoring. Well, that's what he did. 

You continue to speculate that the same end result would have occurred. We don’t KNOW that to be true.

If Tucci says, “you need to have a conference because you didn’t agree” which is what should have happened prior to him reviewing the video. 

Lets say they score it 2 for either wrestler, but not both. A challenge brick is put out there and it goes to the delegate. Does he decide to override the subjective ruling that was agreed upon by 2 out of 3 officials? Maybe

what if all 3 officials decide during the conference that 2-2 makes the most sense. Challenge brick comes in, does Tucci overuse all 3 other officials? Maybe

the fact is, he overstepped his role by accepting the challenge brick. 

There are a number of “what if’s” but in the end, we don’t know for sure what would have happened if the challenge brick was thrown immediately as it is supposed to by rule. We don’t know how Zain and Yianni wrestle differently. We don’t know if the match gets stopped or not. We don’t know if a conference is held. We don’t know what the end result would have been if the rules and process were followed. That is the problem.

 

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24 minutes ago, Yellow_Medal said:


It didn’t NEED to go beyond the mat, but it has and there is a perfectly legitimate process for taking it there. Isn’t that part of your stance, that there is a process for things that should be followed and now you’re against a different process being followed? Just say that you don’t like them pursuing the process for arbitration for personal reasons and leave it at that. They are, however, following said legitimate process.

Clearly they (Koll) has taken it beyond the mat. Once he got the lawyers involved I am not sure what could have been done to avoid this long drawn out appeal.

So we will have an arbitrator instead of a wrestling officiating body settle it and it appears we are going to find out what the arbitrator's ruling is tonite. 

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15 minutes ago, Savage74 said:

You continue to speculate that the same end result would have occurred. We don’t KNOW that to be true.

If Tucci says, “you need to have a conference because you didn’t agree” which is what should have happened prior to him reviewing the video. 

Lets say they score it 2 for either wrestler, but not both. A challenge brick is put out there and it goes to the delegate. Does he decide to override the subjective ruling that was agreed upon by 2 out of 3 officials? Maybe

what if all 3 officials decide during the conference that 2-2 makes the most sense. Challenge brick comes in, does Tucci overuse all 3 other officials? Maybe

the fact is, he overstepped his role by accepting the challenge brick. 

There are a number of “what if’s” but in the end, we don’t know for sure what would have happened if the challenge brick was thrown immediately as it is supposed to by rule. We don’t know how Zain and Yianni wrestle differently. We don’t know if the match gets stopped or not. We don’t know if a conference is held. We don’t know what the end result would have been if the rules and process were followed. That is the problem.

 

Totally disagree Tucci overstepped his role. His very job is to settle scoring mistakes.

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