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MSU158

Big12 time to move on

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I know there is a lot of tradition that OSU, Iowa State and Oklahoma want to cling to but I only see it as a negative to cling to a 4 team, which no offense to West Virginia, is truly a 3 team conference. I think it can only hurt these programs in the long run and with the realignment of multiple conferences they need to move while the getting is good. The Big12 Championship 2 day format was a JOKE and sold me it is time to MAKE A CHANGE! The ACC is on the rise and sure looks like a good fit for atleast a couple of teams. A move to the MAC looks quite viable as well. I hope something is done soon because they are great, storied programs that could be helping other conferences instead of keeping an aged one on life support.

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The Big 12 is fashioned around big revenue sports. Primarily football. Unfortunately, wrestling has nothing to do with the decision to stay or leave the Big 12. WVU will get pounded !

 

The limited amount of teams in DI wrestling has already allowed for multiple affiliate memberships outside of their normal conferences for teams that are in Conferences that are strong in the other sports. I don't see how keeping the Big12 wrestling conference in its current laughable condition helps an otherwise strong conference. Let the teams bolster another conference in wrestling and in the process hopefully bolster themselves!

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I can't think of any reason for Okie State to want to leave the Big12 conference in wrestling. Due to the lack of competition they send virtually their entire team to nationals every year. Plus the truncated conference gives the other teams a chance to send more to nationals as well.

 

On the other hand, I'd like to see the teams move to bigger conferences. OU/OSU/ISU would be awesome additions to the MAC. Poor West Virginia not only got creamed in wrestling this year...their football and bball teams scarcely fared any better.

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There was a coaches meeting after the first day, they know changes have to be made. They should have kept Missouri, and invited No. Iowa, Wyoming, and Air Force. The first two are gone. They can add four schools and probably keep the Big 12 name. Adding Wyoming would be a big help. Since Mark Branch took over Wyoming wrestles both OU and OSU every year. I think North Dakota State wouldn't be a bad choice as they now have a few good individuals. Northern Colorado would battle West Virginia for last place.

 

The other option is do away with the Big 12 championship tournament and go to a regional as the tournament qualifier. I am hoping TCU would add wrestling, the Dallas-Ft. worth metroplex now has more high schools with wrestling than the state of Oklahoma. A lot of guys who coached in Oklahoma are now coaching in Texas. Jerry Best the Allen coach was a 4-time champ at Chandler, OK and 3-time champ at UCO. OU signed Oliver Pearce from Allen last fall. The depth of talent is getting good enough to support a D1 wrestling program.

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I am hoping TCU would add wrestling, the Dallas-Ft. worth metroplex now has more high schools with wrestling than the state of Oklahoma. A lot of guys who coached in Oklahoma are now coaching in Texas. Jerry Best the Allen coach was a 4-time champ at Chandler, OK and 3-time champ at UCO. OU signed Oliver Pearce from Allen last fall. The depth of talent is getting good enough to support a D1 wrestling program.

 

Yes, there are a lot of high school programs here now (in Dallas), but aside from Allen the caliber of talent is really mediocre. Many of the high school kids didn't wrestle in kids clubs, because basically there weren't a lot here, until recently. My son is 6 and his coach is from PA (coached in PA and wrestled for Rider), and his club is growing fast and gaining momentum. I believe the # of high school programs in TX is around 280 right now, and growing rather quickly (compared to MO, where I just moved from, who has around 240 teams). I went to a number of duals and tournaments this season in and around DFW, and I was surprised at the high degree of physicality, and low degree of technique. Obviously football is the premier boys sport here, and many of the wrestlers who play football miss much of the season and have to participate in off-season football related stuff, thus little or no freestyle/greco work. Pierce is an obvious exception.

 

I certainly believe a D1 program would do well down here. TCU would be a good option, as it is private and out of the grasp of the UT system. The first program would most definitely need to be in the DFW area (to draw from OK, DFW, KS, CO, MO, NM, etc). I think Univ of North TX would be another option - big school (36k students), only 30 min from Oklahoma state line, 30 min from FTW and 30 min from Dallas, public, football doesn't dominate the athletic landscape (unlike UT, TT & aTm). Plus Denton has a pretty cool college town vibe...

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I can't think of any reason for Okie State to want to leave the Big12 conference in wrestling. Due to the lack of competition they send virtually their entire team to nationals every year. Plus the truncated conference gives the other teams a chance to send more to nationals as well.

 

You don't understand how qualifying works, do you?

 

Please explain how the four team conference makes it easier for Okie State to qualify all 10? Or how it makes it easier for other teams in the conference to qualify as well. I'm interested in seeing your logic behind that claim.

 

Regionals make more sense in the long run but I think you're going to have a really hard time convincing Big XII and Big 10 schools to go away from being able to crown conference champions.

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The other option is do away with the Big 12 championship tournament and go to a regional as the tournament

 

I still think this is the best idea, and inevitably what's going to happen....

 

Support!

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The other option is do away with the Big 12 championship tournament and go to a regional as the tournament

 

I still think this is the best idea, and inevitably what's going to happen....

 

Support!

 

Ok........just for fun, let's look at possible regional quality tournaments. Keep in mind, this is off the top of my head and my geography may be a bit off. I've put together 8 regions, with 9/10 teams per. Hopefully I didn't miss any....

 

West:

Oregon St

Arizona St

Boise St

Air Force

CSU – Bakersfield

Utah Valley

Stanford

Cal Poly

Wyoming

 

Midwest:

Iowa St

Nebraska

Oklahoma

OK State

Mizzou

Northern Colorado

Iowa

S. Ill – Edwardsville

Illinois

 

North:

S Dakota St

N Dakota St

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Northwestern

Northern Illinois

Michigan

Michigan St

Northern Iowa

 

Central-North:

Eastern Michigan

Central Michigan

Purdue

Indiana

Ohio St

Ohio

Kent St

Pitt

West Virginia

 

Southeast:

UNC

NC State

VMI

Gardner Webb

Citadel

Duke

Davidson

App State

UTC

Campbell

 

Mid- Atlantic:

Maryland

Navy

Virginia

Virginia Tech

Penn St

George Mason

Old Dominion

Edinboro

Binghampton

American

 

Mid-North:

Bucknell

Buffalo

Lock Haven

Clarion

Drexel

Cornell

Bloomsburg

Penn

Lehigh

Franklin & Marshall

 

Northeast:

Harvard

Sacred Heart

Boston U

Army

Columbia

Hofstra

Brown

Rutgers

Rider

Princeton

 

 

Ideas, thoughts, any changes that should be made????

 

I would keep the allocation system the way it is now, just apply it to the regions accordingly

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The Big Ten will not allow that to happen. What is more likely is outlined in the article below that I linked.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/nwca-pr ... mpionships

 

Basically make it six regional tournaments

1. Big Ten

2. EIWA

3. Pac 12 and WWC

4. Big 12 and MAC

5. EWL and SEC

6. ACC and CAA

 

Keep the allocation method the same.

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The Big Ten will not allow that to happen. What is more likely is outlined in the article below that I linked.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/nwca-pr ... mpionships

 

Basically make it six regional tournaments

1. Big Ten

2. EIWA

3. Pac 12 and WWC

4. Big 12 and MAC

5. EWL and SEC

6. ACC and CAA

 

Keep the allocation method the same.

 

What's the difference between what you just wrote and what fudgetunnel suggested outside of how the teams are divvied up?

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I think that if the Big 10 adds North Carolina and Maryland, that they will not allow the Big 10 to COMPLETELY stay together as a regional qualifier.

 

I think their would have to be more balancing of the powers. I don't think you can have one tourney getting auto qualifers for their champion (when they don't earn one) and another having 9 of 11 going (the Big 10) at a particular weight.

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I don't see the Big XII, MAC, and EIWA being okay with giving up their tournaments if the Big 10 doesn't have to as well.

 

I'd like to see it going to something more along the lines of how Iowa high schools do it. Where you have a conference championship that is separate from the state (National) tournament qualifying event. But continue to use the current allocation system.

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The Big 12 commish is a wrestling guy.

 

4 out of the 10 have wrestling.

Are all 6 going to add wrestling? No. But 2 is doable. Preferably one of the Texas schools, (Baylor or TCU) and/or Kansas St.

 

I know how hard it is to add wrestling at D I, but with the commish being the former AD at Iowa and Stanford, there is some hope.

 

Maybe PT can tell us what the Coaches Association is doing, or if there is anything we aren't privy to.

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I think that short of a big donor stepping in and fully funding the program from the get go you aren't going to see any D1 schools adding any sports, wrestling included. The growth in college sports participation is going to continue to be at the D-III level, in my opinion. D-1 is growing immensely in money but not in opportunities for athletes.

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I'm fairly certain a "big donor offered to fund one of the TX schools a few years ago. Anyone else?

 

 

 

What school? I wonder what The big 12 commish can do. Does he just lobby? Or can he make a school add the sport?

 

I would love to see TCU and BAYLOR. Would be a huge shot for D I

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A guy offered $50 million to UT to fund a men's hockey program. DeLoss Dodds the UT AD turned down the offer, said it would only cause him problems. Then he said come talk to me when you want to fund a woman's sport.

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Just for accuracy's sake -- the poster who mentioned the Big 12 tournament "two-day format" being a joke apparently was confused. The Friday duals had nothing to do with the Big 12 tournament. Those duals were simply final regular season duals for each team -- not part of the tournament. West Virginia had trouble getting dates, travel expense, etc., worked out for the required home-and-home with the other three teams, so this is what they did.

The embarrassing part was that once they agreed as a conference to do it, two of the teams basically didn't try to put a representative team on the mat.

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Just for accuracy's sake -- the poster who mentioned the Big 12 tournament "two-day format" being a joke apparently was confused. The Friday duals had nothing to do with the Big 12 tournament. Those duals were simply final regular season duals for each team -- not part of the tournament. West Virginia had trouble getting dates, travel expense, etc., worked out for the required home-and-home with the other three teams, so this is what they did.

The embarrassing part was that once they agreed as a conference to do it, two of the teams basically didn't try to put a representative team on the mat.

 

You may want to read what I wrote a little better since you look to be the one confused. I did not say the two day format was a TOURNAMENT. I understand the first day was just duals and the 2nd was a 4 man tournament. One of the reasons I was told this format was used was to mimic a two day weigh-in similar to a 2 day tournament as several other Conference tournaments do. And I was CORRECT in calling it a joke since a LARGE portion of the wrestlers did not even weigh in the first day. I understand that West Virginia had issues with scheduling and that was a large part for the two days of wrestling. However, it ONLY furthers my point that the Conference is a mess. I watched both days so trust me I know what happened.

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