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How impressive this season actually is...

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I think this season is one for the books, in terms of story-lines and talent we are getting to watch.

 

Think about it this way, Dake going for his 4th at 4 weights, and going against Taylor to get it, is the ultimate headline...but there is so much beyond that this year. There is literally something to watch for at every single weight class, how many years can you say that? Also, look at how many potential all time greats may be wrestling in this tournament!!

 

We have:

125- McD having a tough go but still going for his 3rd title and 4th finals appearance. Delgado emerging as an offensive juggernaut to rival any other. Megaludis looking to catapult his career forward after his great NCAA performance as a freshman. Waters quietly sneaking into the 1 seed with an undefeated season and a win over McD.

 

133- Stieber v Ramos for the 100th time. Stieber seems like he is on track to be one of the all time greats - so watching him is a privilege. Graff is also coming back from his RS year and could surprise some people at the NCAAs after struggling a bit early.

 

141- The "other" Stieber looks poised to join his brother on top of the podium this year after a low AA finish as a freshman - and standing in his way is one of the most exciting guys to watch in the sport. Maple has had some tough luck at NCAAs - but this year looks as close to untouchable as can be, as does Hunter - makes for a great potential match up.

 

149- Oliver is looking to grab "only" his 2nd title. If (probably when) he does, he will have to be one of the, if not the, best 2-timer ever. Chamberlan is solid, but this is Oliver's to lose. And we all know how amazing he is to watch.

 

157- A true toss-up weight class with 3-4 guys who have a legit chance to win it. DSJ, Welch, Green, Alton, Flemming - anyone here can put together a great tournament and win it.

 

165- Dake chasing history - Taylor looking to spoil. Enough said.

 

174 - Possibly one of the craziest weights in the past 20 or so years. About 6 guys who could win. Unreal.

 

184- How can Ed Ruth be such an overwhelming favorite with the returning champ and a formal finalist in his bracket. Is he really that good? Another possible (probable) all time great to watch here.

 

197- Kilgore coming off RS and absolutely mauling people, Wright - who's always up for the NCAAs standing in his way. Each undefeated and looking for their 2nd title - with Wilps and Hernandez ready and very capable of playing spoiler.

 

285- Probably one of the most entertaining heavyweight years in a while. Nelson looking to go back to back, Z, Bradley, Hanke right there.

 

All of this, and it is happening in Iowa, arguable the Mecca of NCAA wrestling - this years tournament is certainly one for the books no matter how it shakes out.

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Oliver's great but the best two timer EVER? Please....can you say J Hubbard, J Smith, C Kolat, M Branch, G Mills, D Pritzlaff, M Demaray, R Lewis, R Stewart, T Krieger, L Banach, D Gable, B Askren, D Hahn, B Metcalf, M Ironside, D Burley, D Hicks, A Metzger, D Cuestas, M Sheets, M Douglas, TJ Williams, J Jordan, R Alger, E Voelker, J Cuvo, Terry Brands, C Barnes, D St. John, K Randleman, and the list goes on and on and on........and certainly not necessarily in that order...

 

You've got several World Teamers/Olympic medalists in there

 

 

 

It IS pretty cool though, in terms of potential finals matchups.

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Oliver's great but the best two timer EVER? Please....can you say J Smith, R Lewis, L Banach, D Gable, B Askren, D Hahn, B Metcalf, M Ironside, D Burley, D Hicks, J Hubbard, A Metzger and the list goes on........

 

It IS pretty cool though, in terms of potential finals matchups.

 

Two things:

 

1) I said "one of, if not the best"

2) Do you think Oliver is behind all on that list? Because I say certainly not.

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Agreed. This tournament makes me think that there is no better time to be a fan than now!

 

One thing you forgot ... the TEAM race. It is anybody's and will most likely also go down to the wire. Just one more exciting facet to this tournament.

 

Can't wait until tomorrow.

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I've been adding to it as you can see....no, he's not behind ALL on that list, but he's certainly- even if he wins this weekend- not the best on the list. Pretty sure that at the same weight J Smith Lewis Kolat Burley Ironside would not have been gimmes for him, and that's just at 134.

 

Oliver's great but the best two timer EVER? Please....can you say J Smith, R Lewis, L Banach, D Gable, B Askren, D Hahn, B Metcalf, M Ironside, D Burley, D Hicks, J Hubbard, A Metzger and the list goes on........

 

It IS pretty cool though, in terms of potential finals matchups.

 

Two things:

 

1) I said "one of, if not the best"

2) Do you think Oliver is behind all on that list? Because I say certainly not.

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Oliver's great but the best two timer EVER? Please....can you say J Smith, R Lewis, L Banach, D Gable, B Askren, D Hahn, B Metcalf, M Ironside, D Burley, D Hicks, J Hubbard, A Metzger and the list goes on........

 

I'd definitely put him up there with the Askren, Hahn, Metcalf. And I think Smith, Lewis, Banach and Ironside all benefit from their post college careers in debates like this.

 

I personally think JO is STILL one of the most underrated wrestlers in NCAA as of now. Guy hasn't been touched since last NCAA's. And I think we'll see plenty more of him on the international level. Too bad he might not get a shot at 2020, cause I think he could do it 2016 and 2020.

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Iowa defeating Penn State in a dual was pretty impressive. McD over Delgado, Ramos over Steiber, DT over Dake, DSJ getting NCAA titles would put this season into a bigger storm. Not sure if Iowa has enough for the team title, but wouldn't be surprised with the way this season has gone. Crazy season!

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I've become "The Dealer Man" with my family, friends and co-workers !!

 

There was a kid at work, trying to figure out the NCAA Basketball brackets and was having a hard time ... I chuckled, reached into my briefcase and showed him the 10 brackets we all are trying to figure out.... ;)

 

Thank gawd for all the coverage we are getting now. It's going to be a fun couple days ...

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I've become "The Dealer Man" with my family, friends and co-workers !!

 

There was a kid at work, trying to figure out the NCAA Basketball brackets and was having a hard time ... I chuckled, reached into my briefcase and showed him the 10 brackets we all are trying to figure out.... ;)

 

Thank gawd for all the coverage we are getting now. It's going to be a fun couple days ...

 

Yeah, I have SEC basketball and football fans in my office area. i just get blank stare when mentioning college wrestling. Thanks for the reminder - I need to print my 10 brackets...

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I've been adding to it as you can see....no, he's not behind ALL on that list, but he's certainly- even if he wins this weekend- not the best on the list. Pretty sure that at the same weight J Smith Lewis Kolat Burley Ironside would not have been gimmes for him, and that's just at 134.

 

Oliver's great but the best two timer EVER? Please....can you say J Smith, R Lewis, L Banach, D Gable, B Askren, D Hahn, B Metcalf, M Ironside, D Burley, D Hicks, J Hubbard, A Metzger and the list goes on........

 

It IS pretty cool though, in terms of potential finals matchups.

 

Two things:

 

1) I said "one of, if not the best"

2) Do you think Oliver is behind all on that list? Because I say certainly not.

 

Of course none of these guys (were they able to meet in their primes) would be a "gimme" for Oliver. But he would be in a match, and have a chance to beat anyone on that list...that is the point I was making - he is one of the best 2 timers ever (should he win).

 

I also have issue with you saying he is "certainly not the best"...why is that exactly? He has 6 losses in his career, one with a huge asterisk next to in that just so happened to keep him from having a shot at 3 titles. Like someone else mentioned, I think some of the others on that list are benefiting from their international careers - which Oliver hasn't even begun yet. Just to fuel the fire of him "certainly not" being the best on this list...how many of these guys jumped up two weight classes in a year and still completely destroyed their competition? I'd bet the list shrinks considerably...

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Oliver was touched pretty good by Dylan Ness a few weeks ago. Oliver was lucky to escape with a victory. He had a 4-2 match with Drake Houdashelt, though I didn't actually see that one so I can't testify to how close it really was.

 

This same Drake Houdashelt?

 

27. Jordan Oliver Maj Drake Houdashelt (Missouri) 15-5 27-0

 

I also don't think it is fair to say someone was "lucky" to escape with a win. Champions find a way to win. Is Kyle Dake not as great as he seems - because he gets touched by people much more often than Oliver does...

 

I think him having a few matches he "only" wins by decision is more than excusable...especially considering for his career he scores bonus points in about 79% of his wins. And if you take his freshman season out of the equation...that number goes up to about 87%. - that is insane.

 

Oliver is an absolute monster...I think he is very very underrated when it comes to his place in NCAA history.

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Agreed. This tournament makes me think that there is no better time to be a fan than now!

 

One thing you forgot ... the TEAM race. It is anybody's and will most likely also go down to the wire. Just one more exciting facet to this tournament.

 

Can't wait until tomorrow.

can't make it to des moines but i'll have a two-on-one on the remote ;)

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Oliver was touched pretty good by Dylan Ness a few weeks ago. Oliver was lucky to escape with a victory. He had a 4-2 match with Drake Houdashelt, though I didn't actually see that one so I can't testify to how close it really was.

 

This same Drake Houdashelt?

 

27. Jordan Oliver Maj Drake Houdashelt (Missouri) 15-5 27-0

 

I also don't think it is fair to say someone was "lucky" to escape with a win. Champions find a way to win. Is Kyle Dake not as great as he seems - because he gets touched by people much more often than Oliver does...

 

I think him having a few matches he "only" wins by decision is more than excusable...especially considering for his career he scores bonus points in about 79% of his wins. And if you take his freshman season out of the equation...that number goes up to about 87%. - that is insane.

 

Oliver is an absolute monster...I think he is very very underrated when it comes to his place in NCAA history.

 

Somebody above said that Oliver hadn't been touched since last years NCAA's. I gave two examples of him getting "touched".

 

And there's a difference between Dake's matches and what Oliver did in the National Dual Finals against Ness. Oliver was running for his life in that match for the last period and got ridden like a pony while on bottom.

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Oliver was running for his life in that match for the last period and got ridden like a pony while on bottom

 

No way was he running for his life, he escaped with 54 seconds left in the period, thats not getting ridden like a pony. He was a head in the match, wrestled smart and was called for stalling.

 

All I was saying is that I think on the national scale JO doesn't get the respect he deserves. That being said I hope Ness can pull it off, but he has to get there first and that is definitely not a given.

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Everybody (2 timers) have close matches, no doubt about it.

Oliver is very good.

 

Metzger showed up for his soph year at Oklahoma with a World bronze already hanging around his neck ( having gotten screwed out of a silver by the Soviet/Bulgarian bloc). J Smith had a World gold already heading into his jr (4th year), and beat a defending NCAA champ by 10- Brad Penrith. R Lewis had an Olympic team berth and a pin + a major over the defending NCAA champ (Burley, a two timer in his own right) at his weight during his jr year. Burroughs ended his last two years without a real defeat in the sense of the word ( a default, right?), plus a convincing win over defending champ Andrew Howe.

 

Has JO clubbed the livin crap out of any defending champs? Just wondering...you DO measure a man by his opposition and how he handles it.

 

To say that JO is an excellent wrestler,,,,why yes he is. To say that he's one of the best 2 timers-should he win this weekend- IF NOT the best ever....well, let's just wait and see. I'd say he has a ways to go for the last part of that boast.

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Only reason you don't hear much about JO is that the Dake-Taylor thing, the McD quandry, the domination of Ed Ruth, the brutality of Kilgore, the engima of Q, and the Logan Steiber/Tony Ramos sagas are all, frankly, better stories than Jordan Oliver simply winning this year.

 

Most years he would get alot more attention, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Oliver was running for his life in that match for the last period and got ridden like a pony while on bottom

 

No way was he running for his life, he escaped with 54 seconds left in the period, thats not getting ridden like a pony. He was a head in the match, wrestled smart and was called for stalling.

 

All I was saying is that I think on the national scale JO doesn't get the respect he deserves. That being said I hope Ness can pull it off, but he has to get there first and that is definitely not a given.

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Everybody (2 timers) have close matches, no doubt about it.

Oliver is very good.

 

Metzger showed up for his soph year at Oklahoma with a World bronze already hanging around his neck ( having gotten screwed out of a silver by the Soviet/Bulgarian bloc). J Smith had a World gold already heading into his jr (4th year), and beat a defending NCAA champ by 10- Brad Penrith. R Lewis had an Olympic team berth and a pin + a major over the defending NCAA champ (Burley, a two timer in his own right) at his weight during his jr year. Burroughs ended his last two years without a real defeat in the sense of the word ( a default, right?), plus a convincing win over defending champ Andrew Howe.

 

Has JO clubbed the livin crap out of any defending champs? Just wondering...you DO measure a man by his opposition and how he handles it.

 

To say that JO is an excellent wrestler,,,,why yes he is. To say that he's one of the best 2 timers-should he win this weekend- IF NOT the best ever....well, let's just wait and see. I'd say he has a ways to go for the last part of that boast.

 

So, just to be clear, you selectively set the criteria of what would constitute being the best out of that group, right? Because accomplishing world level freestyle goals means that you are a better NCAA folkstyle wrestler, eh? Freestyle accomplishments weigh more heavily than folkstyle dominance in determine who is the better folkstyler?? Just want to be clear!

 

Any jest aside, I hate that freestyle is brought up in these arguments. We are discussing college careers - and freestyle is completely different. It marginalizes certain guys because of the rules and the way things are set up, even more so now compared to before because of the rule changes.

 

If I am going to compare Oliver to Smith or Lewis or Metzger (etc etc) in folkstyle, Id weigh folkstyle accomplishments first (career record, number of finals appearances/wins, bonus point %, etc) before defaulting to "Oh well *insert name here* already had a world team appearance/medal/etc and Oliver doesn't yet - so obviously *insert name here* is a better folkstyler"

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I beg the question--because I really do not know the answer- does JO have any wins over defending or previous NCAA champs in folkstyle?

Because the guys I just listed all did, as I typed in.

 

You can disdain the freestyle criteria all you like, but in order to achieve that platitude of world competition, one generally has to wade their way through several former NCAA champions.

 

 

 

Everybody (2 timers) have close matches, no doubt about it.

Oliver is very good.

 

Metzger showed up for his soph year at Oklahoma with a World bronze already hanging around his neck ( having gotten screwed out of a silver by the Soviet/Bulgarian bloc). J Smith had a World gold already heading into his jr (4th year), and beat a defending NCAA champ by 10- Brad Penrith. R Lewis had an Olympic team berth and a pin + a major over the defending NCAA champ (Burley, a two timer in his own right) at his weight during his jr year. Burroughs ended his last two years without a real defeat in the sense of the word ( a default, right?), plus a convincing win over defending champ Andrew Howe.

 

Has JO clubbed the livin crap out of any defending champs? Just wondering...you DO measure a man by his opposition and how he handles it.

 

To say that JO is an excellent wrestler,,,,why yes he is. To say that he's one of the best 2 timers-should he win this weekend- IF NOT the best ever....well, let's just wait and see. I'd say he has a ways to go for the last part of that boast.

 

So, just to be clear, you selectively set the criteria of what would constitute being the best out of that group, right? Because accomplishing world level freestyle goals means that you are a better NCAA folkstyle wrestler, eh? Freestyle accomplishments weigh more heavily than folkstyle dominance in determine who is the better folkstyler?? Just want to be clear!

 

Any jest aside, I hate that freestyle is brought up in these arguments. We are discussing college careers - and freestyle is completely different. It marginalizes certain guys because of the rules and the way things are set up, even more so now compared to before because of the rule changes.

 

If I am going to compare Oliver to Smith or Lewis or Metzger (etc etc) in folkstyle, Id weigh folkstyle accomplishments first (career record, number of finals appearances/wins, bonus point %, etc) before defaulting to "Oh well *insert name here* already had a world team appearance/medal/etc and Oliver doesn't yet - so obviously *insert name here* is a better folkstyler"

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I beg the question--because I really do not know the answer- does JO have any wins over defending or previous NCAA champs in folkstyle?

Because the guys I just listed all did, as I typed in.

 

You can disdain the freestyle criteria all you like, but in order to achieve that platitude of world competition, one generally has to wade their way through several former NCAA champions.

 

I don't believe he does, but I also don't believe he has ever wrestled any after maybe his freshman year, if then...

 

And I am not disdaining anything about freestyle accomplishments - simply pointing out that freestyle is not the same as folkstyle - so I don't think it should be the default argument in these discussion...which it always is.

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Only reason you don't hear much about JO is that the Dake-Taylor thing, the McD quandry, the domination of Ed Ruth, the brutality of Kilgore, the engima of Q, and the Logan Steiber/Tony Ramos sagas are all, frankly, better stories than Jordan Oliver simply winning this year.

 

Most years he would get alot more attention, I'm sure.

 

 

 

Oliver was running for his life in that match for the last period and got ridden like a pony while on bottom

 

No way was he running for his life, he escaped with 54 seconds left in the period, thats not getting ridden like a pony. He was a head in the match, wrestled smart and was called for stalling.

 

All I was saying is that I think on the national scale JO doesn't get the respect he deserves. That being said I hope Ness can pull it off, but he has to get there first and that is definitely not a given.

 

 

True BadgerMon

 

As for "stealing thunder" - very similar to when Burroughs won his two titles and having the Caldwell/Metcalf & Jenkins/Taylor bouts precede his....

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