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maligned

Junior Greco has a pulse...4th place after Day 1

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Schultz going for gold at 130kg and Nutter going for bronze at 63kg tomorrow. Both looked fantastic and it's enough to have us tied for 4th in guaranteed points going into tomorrow. Caffey is also alive in the repechage at 87kg. Nutter is all go all the time--super fun to watch. And Schultz is Schultz. Thought it was worth mentioning when we typically have 8 or 9 out of 10 guys go one and done at world events.

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2 hours ago, LJB said:

greco is the most popular style of wrestling world wide... 

and i'll be praying to odin that schultz doesn't get put down in his finals...

Honestly not sure if it is accurate that Greco is most popular, and this is coming from an old Greco guy.

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3 hours ago, CoachWrestling said:

Greco suck, get rid of it in the Olympics. 

Should read sucks and there's not a sport in the Olympics that somebody doesn't think sucks. Thank goodness the IOC doesn't use America only to decide what sports should or should not be in the Olympics.

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3 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

Every year at the World Championships, Greco-Roman has the most entries. That IS a fact. 

OK. I absolutely believe you. 

I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good looking. I'm not very attractive.

 

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39 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

OK. I absolutely believe you. 

I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good looking. I'm not very attractive.

 

Some of those were directed at me, right?

Obvious am clearly better looking and correct about something.

Disregard those two bits, @JasonBryant. Meant for me.

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54 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

Every year at the World Championships, Greco-Roman has the most entries. That IS a fact. 

not only that, but, going to any of the overseas tourneys shows the same trend... greco is more popular worldwide no matter how scared of it we are in this country

 

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Some of those were directed at me, right?

Obvious am clearly better looking and correct about something.

Disregard those two bits, @JasonBryant. Meant for me.

OK. I absolutely believe you. 

I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the worst. You're very good looking. I'm not very attractive.

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10 hours ago, LJB said:

not only that, but, going to any of the overseas tourneys shows the same trend... greco is more popular worldwide no matter how scared of it we are in this country

 

More popular worldwide or just more countries entering someone?  Total participant numbers vs. total countries entered.  Greco may have participants from country to country in certain regions, but  it seems as if still Freestyle has more total overall involvement.  Just checking, since one doesn’t equal the other. 

Edited by MadMardigain

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2 hours ago, MadMardigain said:

More popular worldwide or just more countries entering someone?  Total participant numbers vs. total countries entered.  Greco may have participants from country to country in certain regions, but  it seems as if still Freestyle has more total overall involvement overall.  Just checking, since one doesn’t equal the other. 

I had the same thought. The number of Iranian, Russian, and American fans puts the free international stream viewer numbers always higher for freestyle than Greco.

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Caffey at 87kg gets a repechage win by fall before losing in a tight one 8-7 to Sweden in what would have sent him to the bronze medal match. He was much more talented and had a better gas tank but the match kept getting broken up by reviews and it really hindered him.

Our 5 guys at the Day 2 weights go 3-2 in their first matches with all three winners wrestling their next matches on Mat B shortly.  

This means at least 6 of the 10 guys will come away with a win or more. I can't remember the last time that happened at any level for us in Greco. An overall winning record would also be a rarity for us at a world event and we sit at 9-6 at the moment.

Edited by maligned

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11 hours ago, LJB said:

greco is the most popular style of wrestling world wide... 

and i'll be praying to odin that schultz doesn't get put down in his finals...

How are you defining popular?

Greco may have the most participants, but fans worldwide seem to care much more about freestyle results.  Freestyle just seems to be much higher profile, and personally, I'd give up greco in a heartbeat if it meant 8-10 freestyle weights.

With the rise of women's wrestling, something is going to have to give, at least at the Olympic level, and I'd rather have a full set of freestyle weights than e.g., 4-5 weights in every discipline (once women's greco becomes a thing).

Purely my opinion, however, and a biased one at that.

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I like freestyle better than Greco too, but what I'm watching this morning is anything but the boring characterization everyone puts on Greco. We're now 5-3 through 8 matches this morning and we've scored less than 7 points only twice. Tons of throws and tons of pressure from every guy I've seen. 

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7 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

Every year at the World Championships, Greco-Roman has the most entries. That IS a fact. 

Unless you're suggesting that freestyle doesn't get enough entrants to fill all the available entries, I'm not sure that's meaningful.  It also seems odd, given how few available entries there already are due to qualification procedures.

 

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3 hours ago, maligned said:

I had the same thought. The number of Iranian, Russian, and American fans puts the free international stream viewer numbers always higher for freestyle than Greco.

Frankly, that's probably the most reliable metric available, and if freestyle captures significantly higher viewership, and especially in countries like Russia, America and Iran, then some sort of consolidation may really be worthwhile.

I'm also curious why women's greco doesn't yet exist (at least not at the senior level), as that also suggests disinterest.

Given the size and reach of the Olympic stage, I can't help but wonder whether 8-10 freestyle weights for both men & women (and no Greco) helps grow the sport much more than the same total number of weights spread across double the disciplines (assuming women's greco eventually becomes a consideration).

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15 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Unless you're suggesting that freestyle doesn't get enough entrants to fill all the available entries, I'm not sure that's meaningful.  It also seems odd, given how few available entries there already are due to qualification procedures.

 

There are no qualification procedures at worlds. What they are saying is a fact. There are always many more entries in Greco--as in many more countries involved and more countries with higher numbers of weights filled. It's tough to balance the argument. Iran, the US, and Russia are high-population nations, so of course their interest in freestyle means there will be more viewers at worlds--but is that enough to say it's "more popular" when more nations are invested in Greco than are invested in freestyle? As far as the International Olympic Committee is concerned, it's not. They love Greco. More nations trying to qualify for the Olympics. Broader distribution of medals across nations. We see everything through our own lens, but that's not necessarily the international lens.

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I'm not going to claim that I know viewership but Greco is likely popular in different countries than FS. A breadth of popularity in terms of countries might account for higher entries at the World's. Possibly in countries with less developed internet capabilities. I think Greco is more similar to various other folkstyles. 

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7 hours ago, LJB said:

not only that, but, going to any of the overseas tourneys shows the same trend... greco is more popular worldwide no matter how scared of it we are in this country

 

I'm sorry, and not to monopolize the thread, but one ambiguously defined, and potentially meaningless, metric doesn't really tell us anything. 

Even if we assume there really are more greco entrants at every international tournament, what does that actually mean?  There are myriad potential explanations that, if anything, may suggest exactly the opposite of your claim.

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7 minutes ago, maligned said:

There are no qualification procedures at worlds. What they are saying is a fact. There are always many more entries in Greco--as in many more countries involved and more countries with higher numbers of weights filled. It's tough to balance the argument. Iran, the US, and Russia are high-population nations, so of course their interest in freestyle means there will be more viewers at worlds--but is that enough to say it's "more popular" when more nations are invested in Greco than are invested in freestyle? As far as the International Olympic Committee is concerned, it's not. They love Greco. More nations trying to qualify for the Olympics. Broader distribution of medals across nations. We see everything through our own lens, but that's not necessarily the international lens.

What they are saying may well be fact, but on its face, doesn't mean greco is more popular (unless you define popular that narrowly, denuding the word of any meaning).

I'm not even claiming Greco isn't more popular worldwide; it very well may be.  But the number of senior level entrants at international tourneys doesn't prima facie prove that claim.

Not to mention, we haven't even defined popular for the purposes of this discussion.  In fact, as you allude, IOC interest may well be the only definition of popularity that actually matters, even if it completely contravenes general fan interest.

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5 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I'm sorry, and not to monopolize the thread, but one ambiguously defined, and potentially meaningless, metric doesn't really tell us anything. 

Even if we assume there really are more greco entrants at every international tournament, what does that actually mean?  There are myriad potential explanations that, if anything, may suggest exactly the opposite of your claim.

Just to clarify again: I like freestyle better than Greco, so I'd like to consider myself an impartial observer here. In world championship events, entry requirements are simple: one entry per weight per country. Simple fact: more countries have entries in Greco than in freestyle. Simple fact: more countries have larger contingencies (not partial teams) in greco than in freestyle. I think you're misunderstanding something if you think this could in fact be an indicator of freestyle being popular in more nations than Greco. National federations only send competitors where they have budget. More budget across more nations for Greco worldwide suggests more nations care about it than they do about freestyle. 

There is no other wrestling-interested nation on earth that is more skewed in terms of medals and high-end performance than we are in our performance difference between freestyle and Greco. There are a couple other nations that skew slightly toward freestyle and some that skew slightly toward Greco or have entries only in Greco. But we are the most skewed by far in terms of performance. We have a very biased outlook in this discussion.

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2 minutes ago, whaletail said:

  In fact, as you allude, IOC interest may well be the only definition of popularity that actually matters, even if it completely contravenes general fan interest.

I mean it makes them happy BECAUSE of its diversity. Not that they're all somehow closet Greco fans. If there was suddenly much better diversity in freestyle than in greco, I'm guessing Greco would be gone immediately from the Olympics.

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Eischens and Braunagel both fall in tightly contested matches. Omania at 67kg is our last guy in the winners' bracket today. He's looked fantastic, scoring 13 in both wins with multiple 4's from arm throws and headlocks. He's got India in the round of 16 next.

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