Koll on the Arbitration

[NJDan 464]

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6525166-final-x-special-wrestle-off-dake-vs-dieringer/videos?playing=6552238&limit=60

Koll explains how the arbitration went down. 9/12 hours. Shockingly elaborate in my view.

[scribe 1,655]

This thread is really going to upset tbaert 

[Crotalus 324]

Can we get a Cliff's notes?

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[LordNelson 531]

Can we get a Cliff's notes?

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Yeah,
Cael puffed his chest,
Refs changed the score,
Koll protested that chest puffing isn’t cause for outcome,
2 month respite,
Dude with more important things to do reads the script,
Applied logic,
And here we are.


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[Mphillips 452]

59 minutes ago, scribe said:

This thread is really going to upset tbaert 

Oh boy....

[nom 662]

I really appreciate how much Koll talks to media types and shares his perspective and some of the inner workings of things.  

Good interview.  Lots of good info.  

I really wonder about the details of the big ‘witness’ for Zain that ended up confirming Yianni’s case.  Didn’t even have a need to ask him any questions when it came time to cross.  Must have been a bit awkward.  Wonder if Koll is overstating things here.

[AHamilton 195]

Cornell lawyers.

[whaletail 143]

16 minutes ago, nom said:

I really wonder about the details of the big ‘witness’ for Zain that ended up confirming Yianni’s case.  Didn’t even have a need to ask him any questions when it came time to cross.  Must have been a bit awkward.  Wonder if Koll is overstating things here.

For USAW's sake, I hope he's overstating things.  If they were as unprepared as his comment suggests, that's not a good look.

That said, Koll's no idiot, has a law degree himself (I think), and was obviously surprised that their witness didn't contradict Yianni's claims.  I doubt the witness confirmed all of the claims at issue, but I doubt Koll was delusional.

I'd love to see a video of the guy's testimony on a split screen, with the USAW lawyers on the other half, shaking their heads as it went south.

As an aside, after Koll mentioned Yianni still had to win two matches, I suddenly realized how much pressure he's now under.  Unless he wins both, thousands of dollars, perhaps even tens of thousands of dollars, not to mention all that time and effort, were basically wasted.  Even if I weren't a fan (and as  long as I wasn't specifically a Zain fan), I think I'd cheer for Yianni with that in mind.

I also appreciated Koll's honesty when speaking about the Dake matches tomorrow.  The process isn't about fairness, but bringing the best guy.

[wrestlingnerd 2,553]

 

2 minutes ago, whaletail said:

The process isn't about fairness, but bringing the best guy.

That's exactly right and why these trials always bring out the worst of the posters on the forum. You want fair? Don't look to the trials. Because they were designed not to be. The degree to which they're unfair is a variable being tweaked year over year, but if you medal, you get special treatment, period, end of story. Like it or not, that is our process.

[LordNelson 531]

 
That's exactly right and why these trials always bring out the worst of the posters on the forum. You want fair? Don't look to the trials. Because they were designed not to be. The degree to which they're unfair is a variable being tweaked year over year, but if you medal, you get special treatment, period, end of story. Like it or not, that is our process.

And it’s the best it has ever been. Even for the “fair” police.


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[Plasmodium 1,270]

14 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

 

That's exactly right and why these trials always bring out the worst of the posters on the forum. You want fair? Don't look to the trials. Because they were designed not to be. The degree to which they're unfair is a variable being tweaked year over year, but if you medal, you get special treatment, period, end of story. Like it or not, that is our process.

Huh? Fairness is all that counts.  That's why there are rules and all competitors play by the same ones. That is what this was all about. 

When everyone plays by the same rules, returning medalists and newconers alike, it is fair.

[whaletail 143]

52 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Huh? Fairness is all that counts.  That's why there are rules and all competitors play by the same ones. That is what this was all about. 

When everyone plays by the same rules, returning medalists and newconers alike, it is fair.

But fairness isn't the goal of the process; sending the best possible team to Worlds is the goal.

That may change in the future (especially after this year's controversy), but at least since Zeke Jones' tenure, it's been about sending the best team.

Nonetheless, it isn't as unfair as it was when the challenge tourney winner had to wrestle a returning medalist the same day.  That was a bit excessive.

[AHamilton 195]

1 hour ago, whaletail said:

process isn't about fairness, but bringing the best guy.

True... but when you screw with the challenger's preparation, not only is it unfair, but there is also a chance you aren't bringing the best guy., because the challenger won't be as good as he could have been

...and that is what they have done to Ringer.

[red blades 160]

Yeah, I can't imagine how Ringer could possibly be prepared for this.  And meanwhile, Dake has had so much time to prepare.  Incredible injustice.

[hammerlockthree 1,647]

Red blades is exactly right, AHamilton is trying to mask stupid comments with a sophisticated avatar.

[Plasmodium 1,270]

19 minutes ago, whaletail said:

But fairness isn't the goal of the process; sending the best possible team to Worlds is the goal.

That may change in the future (especially after this year's controversy), but at least since Zeke Jones' tenure, it's been about sending the best team.

Nonetheless, it isn't as unfair as it was when the challenge tourney winner had to wrestle a returning medalist the same day.  That was a bit excessive.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.  The system is geared towards sending the best team and it is fair.

[NJDan 464]

1 hour ago, whaletail said:

For USAW's sake, I hope he's overstating things.  If they were as unprepared as his comment suggests, that's not a good look.

That said, Koll's no idiot, has a law degree himself (I think), and was obviously surprised that their witness didn't contradict Yianni's claims.  I doubt the witness confirmed all of the claims at issue, but I doubt Koll was delusional.

I'd love to see a video of the guy's testimony on a split screen, with the USAW lawyers on the other half, shaking their heads as it went south.

As an aside, after Koll mentioned Yianni still had to win two matches, I suddenly realized how much pressure he's now under.  Unless he wins both, thousands of dollars, perhaps even tens of thousands of dollars, not to mention all that time and effort, were basically wasted.  Even if I weren't a fan (and as  long as I wasn't specifically a Zain fan), I think I'd cheer for Yianni with that in mind.

I also appreciated Koll's honesty when speaking about the Dake matches tomorrow.  The process isn't about fairness, but bringing the best guy.

Good points, except Koll does not have a law degree. 

There is a lot of pressure on Yianni to take advantage of this opportunity, one that so many think he does not deserve. Same for Dake. Good thing both guys a so clutch.

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by NJDan

[nhs67 512]

1 minute ago, NJDan said:

Good points, except Koll does not have a law degree.

I do.

On Roblox.

[AHamilton 195]

1 hour ago, hammerlockthree said:

Red blades is exactly right, AHamilton is trying to mask stupid comments with a sophisticated avatar.

What I am talking about is his late withdrawal from FinalX...clearly designed to mess with Ringer's preparation.

Additionally, Dake has ALWAYS had an idea as to when this wrestle-off was going to occur, and for a long time Ringer thought it was going to be in early June.

Edited August 17, 2019 by AHamilton

[whaletail 143]

43 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

What I am talking about is his late withdrawal from FinalX...clearly designed to mess with Ringer's preparation.

Additionally, Dake has ALWAYS had an idea as to when this wrestle-off was going to occur, and for a long time Ringer thought it was going to be in early June.

Fair points, but I doubt Ringer was blindsided by the delay.  Of course, he still had to be ready, if only just in case, but I think that's more of an annoyance than anything else as he's certainly had plenty of time to prepare since.

Will peaking this close to Worlds inconvenience him at Worlds (assuming he wins)?  I guess it's a possibility, but at this level, these guys are always fit, and it's not as if he'd otherwise spend this time preparing for a specific opponent.  And with Gadhzi out, whoever wins the spot will be favored for gold, and by a huge margin, regardless of any less than optimal preparation.

That said, I won't be surprised if this summer's delays precipitate procedural changes in that area for future WCs & Olympics.

[Billyhoyle 1,760]

I think one of Koll's interesting comments was that Cunningham was in the room with Retherford and Cael was "in and out of the room" through the course of the hearing.  

[headshuck 2,059]

Forum needs it’s responses?

[LJB 947]

8 hours ago, whaletail said:

That said, I won't be surprised if this summer's delays precipitate procedural changes in that area for future WCs & Olympics.

You do realize maroulis had a wrestle off two weeks before worlds last year...

still same process after that...

 

[whaletail 143]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

You do realize maroulis had a wrestle off two weeks before worlds last year...

still same process after that...

 

Not that I'm by any means certain that USAW will change any of the rules, but the Maroulis delay didn't elicit any of the controversy associated with Dake/Dieringer.

[LJB 947]

22 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Not that I'm by any means certain that USAW will change any of the rules, but the Maroulis delay didn't elicit any of the controversy associated with Dake/Dieringer.

i fail to see the relevance... just because a few vocal nobodies on a forum based around a niche' sport that don't like the color of singlet dake wore in his college years does not mean there is some huge controversy...