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Dake-Dieringer live thread

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2 hours ago, jon said:

Flo selected the place. Flo didn't fill the place. Plus it's the small gymnasium not even the big one lol.

this is all very incorrect. USA Wrestling selected the location and USA Wrestling-Texas found a site and ran the event. Flo did what we could to help sell as many tickets as possible. Also it was the larger of the two gyms on campus.

I thought it was a great crowd for being in Round Rock for at most 3 matches. There are few senior level events that are better attended than this. But Dake and Dieringer are a big draw! Excellent job by everyone involved with the event imo!

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For what it’s worth I thought this was yet another demonstration of just how freakin talented Dake is on the one hand and just how uninspirational his style is on the other hand. The way we know Dake is amazing is because of everyone he’s been able to beat. He’s beaten at least three world champions (this includes his win over Cox), two hodge trophy winners, countless NCAA champs of the ordinary variety, and so on. Yet for all that he’s always about to be dethroned. Even people who bet on him do it “only because you can’t bet against him” or “my heart says X but logic says Dake”. Meanwhile guys like Yianni and Taylor, both amazing, are consistently amazing on the other side of that logic. Despite many more losses and fewer high level wins (obviously Taylor has somewhat elevated past that) there are far more people betting on them. And this is naturally because of style. Taylor and Yianni far more often impress and look like world beaters when they win. Perhaps Dake knows more about winning and less about impressing ?

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26 minutes ago, ionel said:

Can we just all agree that one should never bet against Dake in a real match.  Pick his opponent in a fantasy match if you want but ...

I'll take Cox any day vs Dake.

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13 minutes ago, KCMO2 said:

I'll take Cox any day vs Dake.

Considering the size disparity, who wouldn't?

Had they been the same size in 2016, I think Dake would have beaten Cox convincingly. 

2019 Cox, of course, is an altogether different beast, and if they were the same size, I'm not sure who I'd favor (probably Dake, but I'm biased).

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5 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Considering the size disparity, who wouldn't?

Had they been the same size in 2016, I think Dake would have beaten Cox convincingly. 

2019 Cox, of course, is an altogether different beast, and if they were the same size, I'm not sure who I'd favor (probably Dake, but I'm biased).

If they both made the decision to wrestle at the same weight, then don't whine about the size disparity.  Dake may have been smaller at the time, but he also didn't have to go through the weight cut that Cox did.  And if they were the same exact size now, Cox would win the series 2-0.  Can anyone even remember the last time Cox was taken down?

 

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1 hour ago, BigTimeFan said:

For what it’s worth I thought this was yet another demonstration of just how freakin talented Dake is on the one hand and just how uninspirational his style is on the other hand. The way we know Dake is amazing is because of everyone he’s been able to beat. He’s beaten at least three world champions (this includes his win over Cox), two hodge trophy winners, countless NCAA champs of the ordinary variety, and so on. Yet for all that he’s always about to be dethroned. Even people who bet on him do it “only because you can’t bet against him” or “my heart says X but logic says Dake”. Meanwhile guys like Yianni and Taylor, both amazing, are consistently amazing on the other side of that logic. Despite many more losses and fewer high level wins (obviously Taylor has somewhat elevated past that) there are far more people betting on them. And this is naturally because of style. Taylor and Yianni far more often impress and look like world beaters when they win. Perhaps Dake knows more about winning and less about impressing ?

When Dake wrestles aggressively, he looks as dominant as anyone I've ever seen.

Unfortunately, his high profile domestic matches are almost always for World/Olympic spots, and he wrestles a lot more tactically when it's all on the line like that.

In today's matches, Dieringer wasn't giving him much to work with either, and when he can dump you for 4 whenever he controls a tricep, Dake's strategy makes a lot more sense.

Keep in mind, he's teched some of the top guys in the world (e.g. Tsargush, Gadzhi & Dieringer), and not just takedown + gut/lace techs.

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12 minutes ago, Roadkill said:

Do you think Cox goes 86kg or 97kg for 2020?  Has he said?  I think he beats Snyder for the spot if he goes 97.

Word is he's going 86.  And I'd give him a 50/50 chance at 97.

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Well my take was that Dake neutralized Deringer's offense, and probably should've been hit with some additional passive calls, but in the long run, even if he was, I don't think it would've mattered much, because it seemed like Dake could score when he needed to. 

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1 minute ago, KCMO2 said:

If they both made the decision to wrestle at the same weight, then don't whine about the size disparity.  Dake may have been smaller at the time, but he also didn't have to go through the weight cut that Cox did.  And if they were the same exact size now, Cox would win the series 2-0.  Can anyone even remember the last time Cox was taken down?

 

Who's whining?

You made a claim, and I rebutted.  Sans the size disparity, I believe Dake would have won that series (christ, he almost did anyway).

In 2019, at the same weight, I really have no idea, and neither do you.  Cox is absolutely tough to score on, let alone take down, and Dake blew through Worlds without giving up a point.

Too bad we'll never know.

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14 minutes ago, KCMO2 said:

If they both made the decision to wrestle at the same weight, then don't whine about the size disparity.  Dake may have been smaller at the time, but he also didn't have to go through the weight cut that Cox did.  And if they were the same exact size now, Cox would win the series 2-0.  Can anyone even remember the last time Cox was taken down?

 

I don’t think he was necessarily whining about the weight, but more so pointing out the fact that the weight they wrestled at was more optimal for Cox. The fact remains that a small number of weight classes leads to tweeners sometimes being beaten by guys who aren’t as good p4p as they are. Was this the case with Cox vs Dake? Maybe.

Claiming definitively that Cox would be Dake if they were the same size is unsubstantiated conjecture. Dake was more dominant at Worlds last year than Cox has ever been. If Cox had the equivalent of Burroughs in his weight class he might not have a single medal to his name. 

Edited by AZ_wrestling

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4 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Question:  how do you picture a match between Ringer and Magic Man going?  They are both going to be at 86 KG for the Olympic Trials and matches leading up to that.

DT has a lot more varied offense, but that is only part of the story.  

The Ringer of today? Taylor pins him.

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3 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

For what it’s worth I thought this was yet another demonstration of just how freakin talented Dake is on the one hand and just how uninspirational his style is on the other hand. The way we know Dake is amazing is because of everyone he’s been able to beat. He’s beaten at least three world champions (this includes his win over Cox), two hodge trophy winners, countless NCAA champs of the ordinary variety, and so on. Yet for all that he’s always about to be dethroned. Even people who bet on him do it “only because you can’t bet against him” or “my heart says X but logic says Dake”. Meanwhile guys like Yianni and Taylor, both amazing, are consistently amazing on the other side of that logic. Despite many more losses and fewer high level wins (obviously Taylor has somewhat elevated past that) there are far more people betting on them. And this is naturally because of style. Taylor and Yianni far more often impress and look like world beaters when they win. Perhaps Dake knows more about winning and less about impressing ?

Did you watch the world championships last year?  Seriously did you watch Dake’s matches?  

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This match and the Zain-Yianni affair are more evidence to me that countries with top (elite) contenders should have the chance to send at least two guys to Worlds, especially if they meet certain qualifying standards (e.g., points earned or winning/place in key tournaments or returning medalists, etc).

Many other sports allow countries to send multiple elite members to championships: track and field, gymnastics, swimming, etcetera. 

 

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World championships would be a lot more interesting, entertaining and competitive with 2 or more guys from the US, Russia, Iran, and few other place perhaps.

It's crazy that arguably the #2 guy in the World is unable to compete because he loses to the #1 guy on domestic soil. 

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45 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

This match and the Zain-Yianni affair are more evidence to me that countries with top (elite) contenders should have the chance to send at least two guys to Worlds, especially if they meet certain qualifying standards (e.g., points earned or winning/place in key tournaments or returning medalists, etc).

Many other sports allow countries to send multiple elite members to championships: track and field, gymnastics, swimming, etcetera. 

 

+1000000

I've never understood the argument for 1 country, 1 rep.

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