Dake-Dieringer live thread

[RJChicago 14]

16 minutes ago, whaletail said:

+1000000

I've never understood the argument for 1 country, 1 rep.

Amen amen amen. How is it that at least at the Olympic level - there seem to be 37 swimmers allowed from a given country - and there are 93,121 permutations of events. 200 individual medley, 50 backstroke, 100 backstroke, 200 backstroke, 900 frog hop, 1500 relay, and on and on. Yet, wrestling, the greatest sport known to mankind and one of the most elemental to being human, gets six freestyle Olympic weights with only a handful of wrestlers and one at most from a country even though a number of those countries have multiple candidates who could easily medal. This is a mistake for humankind to treat wrestling like this on the international stage.

[scramble 155]

If there were more than one rep allowed per country we would have fewer world medalists, not more. Russia would have weights with two medalists.  Iran and possibly Cuba too.  Throw in Georgia as well.  Sending 2 US reps would not increase our medal count.  Our gold medal guys would place, but our bronze medalists would be out of the tournament.

[fightingsioux 51]

1 hour ago, dmm53 said:

World championships would be a lot more interesting, entertaining and competitive with 2 or more guys from the US, Russia, Iran, and few other place perhaps.

It's crazy that arguably the #2 guy in the World is unable to compete because he loses to the #1 guy on domestic soil. 

Boxing, judo, taekwondo--also just one person per weight. Seems to be a combat sports thing?

[TripNSweep 735]

I think they should expand the Olympic field.  They should have at least 24 spots per weight.  

[KCMO2 673]

2 hours ago, dmm53 said:

Word from where or whom?  Please elaborate.

My mistake, I thought I read it on TheMat, but I couldn't find anything when I looked.  Most seem to speculate that he'll go 86 instead of bumping up and giving up 10+ pounds to Snyder.  Also, he did say he was a couple of pounds under weight following his workouts at Final X.  But nothing definitive that I know of has been mentioned.

[dmm53 605]

18 minutes ago, scramble said:

If there were more than one rep allowed per country we would have fewer world medalists, not more. Russia would have weights with two medalists.  Iran and possibly Cuba too.  Throw in Georgia as well.  Sending 2 US reps would not increase our medal count.  Our gold medal guys would place, but our bronze medalists would be out of the tournament.

I understand your point, which may or may not prove to be true (since it is a counterfactual at the current time), but my own preference is to see the top guys compete wherever they are from. 

That is the basic nature of competitive sports.  If the top two or three individuals in, say pole vaulting, are from one country, so be it.  You want to see them go head to head whenever possible.  It furthers the sport.   

I'm  personally less interested in medal count than many others, though other things being equal, generally prefer US men and women to win.

[iha 18]

4 hours ago, KCMO2 said:

If they both made the decision to wrestle at the same weight, then don't whine about the size disparity.  Dake may have been smaller at the time, but he also didn't have to go through the weight cut that Cox did.  And if they were the same exact size now, Cox would win the series 2-0.  Can anyone even remember the last time Cox was taken down?

 

Well Cox is a World Champion, so he is obviously very good. But with the weigh in rules at the time and the natural size disparity Cox had about 20 pounds on Dake at match time and still barely got through. As to now at a hypothetical catch weight, who knows and who cares because it will not happen.   

[nhs67 1,952]

3 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

The Ringer of today? Taylor pins him.

Ringer from today VS Taylor from today?

Doubt it.

Ponce.

[tbert 563]

3 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

The Ringer of today? Taylor pins him.

given the fact that Ringer has never been pinned, in high school, college, or internationally,  Im  quite sure you have no idea what you are talking about.   If you said  a tech fall you would still be wrong but closer to sanity.

[nhs67 1,952]

16 minutes ago, tbert said:

given the fact that Ringer has never been pinned, in high school, college, or internationally,  Im  quite sure you have no idea what you are talking about.   If you said  a tech fall you would still be wrong but closer to sanity.

Don't forget the whole Taylor being hurt right now part too.

[PAFAN01 54]

9 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

huh? sumo matches are like 12 seconds long. this was nothing like sumo.

people need to watch more sumo and stop using it as a pejorative to describe anything they don't like about other wrestling styles.

First I said I didn't see the match and my point was that basically the only scoring was for step outs.  Was not denigrating Sumo.

Based on the many comments many were surprised that there was not more scoring especially from Dieringer.

[Abdullahgadzhi Khuzin 1,466]

14 hours ago, spladle said:

Booooring!  Forgive my ambivilence but this year I just don't care if he medals or not.

what's boring? go and show what is not boring. On the mat were two monsters. It was close matches. 

[jon 158]

15 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

this is all very incorrect. USA Wrestling selected the location and USA Wrestling-Texas found a site and ran the event. Flo did what we could to help sell as many tickets as possible. Also it was the larger of the two gyms on campus.

Thank you for correcting my statement about which gym housed the event.

I find it hard to believe the event takes place in Flo's backyard and yet Flo not involved in venue selection. To be fair: Round Rock HS stands to benefit from this event -- good!

 

 

[Dr. Novak 147]

Not sure what Dieringer's plan was?  Zero shots, no offense.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Dr. Novak

[whaletail 240]

10 hours ago, scramble said:

If there were more than one rep allowed per country we would have fewer world medalists, not more. Russia would have weights with two medalists.  Iran and possibly Cuba too.  Throw in Georgia as well.  Sending 2 US reps would not increase our medal count.  Our gold medal guys would place, but our bronze medalists would be out of the tournament.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm fine with that.  Especially as it would likely be a slight decrease.  Honestly, I really don't like awarding double bronzes, and wish they still used pools.

As much as I enjoy the intensity, and importance, associated with Final X and the Olympic Trials, I want to see the best in the world compete, and in a few cases, that means more than one rep at some weights.

[Mphillips 1,651]

10 hours ago, scramble said:

If there were more than one rep allowed per country we would have fewer world medalists, not more. Russia would have weights with two medalists.  Iran and possibly Cuba too.  Throw in Georgia as well.  Sending 2 US reps would not increase our medal count.  Our gold medal guys would place, but our bronze medalists would be out of the tournament.

I took the original post above to mean more participants, not more medals?

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

11 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

Boxing, judo, taekwondo--also just one person per weight. Seems to be a combat sports thing?

The thing is in other sports multiple competitors can compete at once with one set of judges. There’s a lot more throughout vs wrestling and judo where it’s two at a time with a full set of judges. 

[Jaroslav Hasek 2,047]

3 hours ago, jon said:

Thank you for correcting my statement about which gym housed the event.

I find it hard to believe the event takes place in Flo's backyard and yet Flo not involved in venue selection. To be fair: Round Rock HS stands to benefit from this event -- good!

 

 

yes absolutely, Round Rock High School just started a wrestling team and the gate and concessions will help benefit that program. a very good thing imo!

[WillieBoy 713]

11 hours ago, tbert said:

given the fact that Ringer has never been pinned, in high school, college, or internationally,  Im  quite sure you have no idea what you are talking about.   If you said  a tech fall you would still be wrong but closer to sanity.

Taylor will do a Bubba Jenkins on him. There is always a first time... just ask Taylor.

As for participants in Olympic and World Championships. Two per weight(qualified) per country makes sense. So does a real Double Elimination format. This "the guy who beat me advanced so I advance" is asinine. Something a Frenchman would come up with while standing around with his Arms in the air - getting armpits sunburned - as the Germans march by.

 

[WillieBoy 713]

3 hours ago, Dr. Novak said:

Not sure what Dieringer's plan was?  Zero shots, no offense.

Dake is a good counter wrestler. If you don't take shots, maybe you pray the Ref dings Dake for stalling instead of you?

[whaletail 240]

8 hours ago, Mphillips said:

I took the original post above to mean more participants, not more medals?

I think he thought the argument for more reps had something to do with increased medal counts (e.g. Dake & Dieringer could both medal), but for me at least, it's all to do with the wrestling quality.

I'm sure many will disagree, but if the top 5 guys at a given weight all come from Iran and Russia, I'd rather they all compete, even if it costs our rep a (less meaningful) bronze.  If that means we lose the team race, I'm fine with that as well. I've always viewed wrestling as foremost an individual sport, and don't really pay attention to medal counts.

That said, I almost always* root for US reps individually.  Not because they're from the US, but because I've usually followed their careers since college, if not earlier.

* the exception being someone like Micic, who's long been a favorite of mine.  I'll cheer for Daton against anyone else, but if they meet, I'm hoping Micic pulls it out.

[whaletail 240]

5 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

Taylor will do a Bubba Jenkins on him. There is always a first time... just ask Taylor.

As for participants in Olympic and World Championships. Two per weight(qualified) per country makes sense. So does a real Double Elimination format. This "the guy who beat me advanced so I advance" is asinine. Something a Frenchman would come up with while standing around with his Arms in the air - getting armpits sunburned - as the Germans march by.

 

Other than an absurd opening sentence, and an asinine last one, I agree. 

The repechage, and random draw systems, as well their underlying rationale, contravene the spirit of competition.  Although I prefer pool play tourneys, true double elimination line brackets are nearly as effective.

At least they're currently seeding the top four, I guess.