Jump to content
Jimmy Cinnabon

Yianni-Zain: Who is favored in the wrestleoff?

Recommended Posts

There’s a lot in Yianni’s favor and a little in Zain’s in my opinion. Yianni has the most dominant and recent win of the series. He also has since won two international gold, at a time when, if I’m not mistaken was his first real freestyle season since his last cadet title, so his learning curve from the experience he has gotten the last four months or so has to be way up the charts. He’s more dynamic and therefore the game of adjustments favors him in this type of series. 

Zain has in his favor that it is that type of series, and it’s his turn. And he is very capable of grinding you down over the course of two tightly timed matches enough to get one of them. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, nom said:

  

FLO said Cornell wanted it very quickly.  They didn’t get it that way.  Said they USAW pushed it back as far as they could and not interfere with paperwork and logistics for the trip over and registration.

 

Which is pretty funny considering Dake/Ringer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Which is pretty funny considering Dake/Ringer

They wanted it quickly because they likely feel Zain is still in some type of recovery mode, so earlier favors them. They wanted dake later because the shoe was on the other foot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

They wanted it quickly because they likely feel Zain is still in some type of recovery mode, so earlier favors them. They wanted dake later because the shoe was on the other foot. 

Do you know this or are you projecting your own bitterness?

Alternatively — They wanted it early enough to be reasonable and allowing the winning side to shift to a focus on foreign opponents.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, nom said:

Do you know this or are you projecting your own bitterness?

Alternatively — They wanted it early enough to be reasonable and allowing the winning side to shift to a focus on foreign opponents.    

It's patently obvious. No clairvoyance req'd. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

They wanted it quickly because they likely feel Zain is still in some type of recovery mode, so earlier favors them. They wanted dake later because the shoe was on the other foot. 

I can't tell if you are just stating an opinion or if you believe them to be evil for taking this approach. If the former, I agree. If that latter, every coach should/would do the same thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Savage74 said:

I can't tell if you are just stating an opinion or if you believe them to be evil for taking this approach. If the former, I agree. If that latter, every coach should/would do the same thing. 

Never said anything evil was involved, nom just gets offended when I state the obvious. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if Koll tried to get his doctor to examine Zain and say he was fine.

In all seriousness, I do think there are some coaches that wouldn’t have tried to push to have it so quickly knowing Zain could be injured.  To me, “very quickly” if Flo’s reports are true, does not equal “early enough to be reasonable.”

And while all coaches would want their own wrestler 100% as in the Dake situation, I think there are many that wouldn’t have pulled the Spain stunt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

They wanted it quickly because they likely feel Zain is still in some type of recovery mode, so earlier favors them. They wanted dake later because the shoe was on the other foot. 

I don't doubt you're right, but if Zain is not healthy enough to go right now, I would certainly have concerns about where he'll be come worlds. He clearly must think he'll be healthy enough to wrestle then or he would have (I hope) given up his spot, a la Taylor. But if he can't go hard now, how could he possibly be at his best by then? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

I don't doubt you're right, but if Zain is not healthy enough to go right now, I would certainly have concerns about where he'll be come worlds. He clearly must think he'll be healthy enough to wrestle then or he would have (I hope) given up his spot, a la Taylor. But if he can't go hard now, how could he possibly be at his best by then? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

I am sure he can "go", otherwise he would not wrestle Sept. 2nd. The point is simply that the last time Koll saw him he was injured, so earlier favors Yianni vs later. Its a very simple calculation.  Basically the opposite side of later favored Dake vs Ringer. Why? Because in that case it was Dake coming off injury. 

And before anyone claims I am comparing Zain's injury to Dake's injury, I'm not. I am comparing the situational motivation for Koll/Yianni/Cornell wanting this wrestle off early and the Dake wrestle off later. In each situation they wanted what favored them. Everyone acts in their own self interest, and they are no different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Crotalus said:

I don't doubt you're right, but if Zain is not healthy enough to go right now, I would certainly have concerns about where he'll be come worlds. He clearly must think he'll be healthy enough to wrestle then or he would have (I hope) given up his spot, a la Taylor. But if he can't go hard now, how could he possibly be at his best by then? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

If he’s healthy enough to beat Yianni (the only way he gets to Worlds of course), does it matter?

Edited by 1032004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even ignoring Zain, it is perfectly reasonable for Yianni/Koll to want to wrestle off sooner rather than later .... 

1.  Space out the weight drops.

2.  Allow time to focus on foreign opponents.

Same reason why Dieringer’s camp wanted an earlier wrestle off with Dake.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These threads are getting really tedious, with social media like attacks, anger, and little content. Wrestling should try to steer away from this poison that seems to affect so much of American society.

Content, please. I feel that if Zain can get to the double, and he certainly had no trouble with it in match one, sit Yanni to his butt and elevate his foot, preventing him from posting it on the mat, he will be able to ease him back for an exposure. Mike Mal does a good breakdown of this on Behind the Dirt on Flo. By shooting the double instead of the high-crotch, keeping control of both legs, Zain will be able to prevent Yanni from sitting the corner, a skill that Yanni is unmatched at in my opinion.  Elevating Yanni's foot and pulling it away from the body prevents him from posting and rolling through. Yanni is a magician when the attacking wrestler shoots a single. He is able to keep the attacker super close and work the crotch lift, or attack the leg and shift to the corner. My bet is that Zain will come out and attack with double leg shots. Whether he is effective or not remains to be seen.

One thing is sure. Both wrestlers at this point have put the arbitration far in the past, out of the view of their rear-view mirrors, and are focused only on the match. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/22/2019 at 2:14 PM, Dr. Novak said:

Do something about the dandelions in your lawn.

I can picture you looking like the Presidential Hopeful for the Democrats who looks like a crabby old fart yelling " you kids, get the hell off my lawn". We see that look every time he gives a speech.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have so much respect and admiration for Zain.  I think if he had 3 years, he would have a great chance of getting a medal.  He may this year.  Man is a beast.  One of the greatest hammers in our lifetime while in college.  Yianni seems to be even mo-betta.  Sometimes, you're just at the wrong weight at the wrong time.  Same all up and down our world team line-up.  We definitely need 10 wts.  If we had a way to get Daton, Zain and Yianni, JB, Dake, Taylor, Ringer, J'Den, Snyder, Gwiz all in the line-up, that would be close to Russia level strength.  Instead, we have to reduce those 10 plus Gilman, Green. Colon, and Imar down to 6...  It's a shame the world doesn't get to see our most talented team.  We would still be hard pressed to beat the Russians, but there's really only 3 teams that can win it.  If we can stay at the level we are, I believe steel hardens steel, and that we will challenge the Russians when we grow up.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/23/2019 at 1:14 PM, 1032004 said:

I wonder if Koll tried to get his doctor to examine Zain and say he was fine.

In all seriousness, I do think there are some coaches that wouldn’t have tried to push to have it so quickly knowing Zain could be injured.  To me, “very quickly” if Flo’s reports are true, does not equal “early enough to be reasonable.”

And while all coaches would want their own wrestler 100% as in the Dake situation, I think there are many that wouldn’t have pulled the Spain stunt.

I think that's a bit naive.

Although there are limits, coaches are paid to advocate for their wrestlers, not for the sport (and definitely not for their opponents).  Just as John Smith tried to reschedule Dake/Ringer as early as possible, so too would any coach, and it's not reasonable to expect otherwise.

Personally, as much as I admire Cael as both a wrestler and coach (and am a PSU fan as well), I thought he probably crossed that line when he pretended Suriano was going to wrestle at NCAAs after breaking his ankle.  For very little, if any, gain, he left the 125 lb. bracket in shambles, with some wrestlers gaining an arbitrarily obtained competitive advantage, and others the opposite.  He also cost a deserving wrestler the opportunity to compete at all (ironically, Cornell's Noah Baughman was next in line).

And for what?

Although I know many disagree, I also think Dake's trip to Spain trip was much to do about nothing.  As much as I wish he'd simply acknowledged that he was looking after his own interests, he had every right to put himself in the best possible position to win the spot, and eventually, a potential World Championship.  Moreover, he certainly faced a far more arduous task trying to make World teams from 2013-16, than Ringer has this year, the delay notwithstanding.

Having to beat Sponseller etc., Howe and Taylor, just to face JB that same day was absurd, and I wouldn't be surprised if that played a role in his willingness to game the system ruthlessly this summer.  And were I a recruit, knowing Koll had his back the entire way, would positively influence my decision.

Finally, don't forget that DT waited until Downey was all but confirmed as the 86kg rep before announcing his injury.  Regardless of how you view Downey, that wasn't in Team USA's best interest, but it precluded someone like Ringer from bumping up and potentially being able to sit in next year's Olympic Trials finals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/22/2019 at 10:42 AM, klehner said:

So you are saying that each is equally likely to win either match.  And whoever wins the first match is less likely to win the second match, why?

If Yianni has a 70% chance of beating Zain in a single match and the matches are independent then he would have less than 50% chance to win both matches.  He would have to be favored more than 70% in both matches to be the favorite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

If Yianni has a 70% chance of beating Zain in a single match and the matches are independent then he would have less than 50% chance to win both matches.  He would have to be favored more than 70% in both matches to be the favorite.

In that case I'm putting Yianni at 70.5%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...