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All these People Who Say Greco is Popular

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12 minutes ago, LJB said:

There are more Greco wrestlers in Illinois than all wrestlers in Arkansas...

see how easy that is?

Yes, I think you understanding the point now. Illinois and Arkansas would have the same number of Greco-Roman wrestlers at Fargo if it worked under a one state, one participant per weight system the way world championships operates under a one country one participant per weight. yet the total greco participants between illinois and arkansas are no where close to 1 to 1. 

looks like we are making progress on the concept of proportionality. this is good!

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Proportionality, huh?

you made the statement there were more freestyle wrestlers in America than all Greco wrestlers in all of Western europe...

lets see those numbers... 

then let’s see them adjusted per capita seeing as though you are such a fan of proportionality...

 

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4 hours ago, MDogg said:

Perhaps the numbers behind that example took it too far but directionally that’s how I understood what you said. If Americans watch wrestling more online and on TV vs others who tend to only watch it live so “that’s...no good way to determine it”...then the implication was clearly that live attendance needs to factor in more than other consumers (like people who stream the matches).

We don’t have that many marquee international freestyle and Greco wrestling events and the biggest ones move around (world championships, World Cup, Olympics) ...so to me it seems flawed to disproportionately factor in the size of the live audience. 

I said there was no good way to determine. And it would be a matter of definition. How would you decide this? Your apparent approach was to see how many views there would be for greco vs fs. But someone with Flo Pro might then count as hundreds vs someone in a more "developing" country that could only attend in person and might only have one time in a year to do even that. But is viewership how to determine this popularity contest at all? Greco might have more competitors in a number of countries as suggested above. But the total number of competitors world-wide might still favor FS because of things like Hasek's suggestion about India having more FS. It's a matter of definition.

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7 hours ago, LJB said:

it makes me chuckle seeing those who can't possibly fathom that their ignorant jingoistic views are not shared around the world...

it is basically every greek tragedy ever written...

Because some of us aren't taking your word for it, we're jingoistic?  And christ, given some of your recent claims, why on earth would we?  

I'm sorry, but the number of World Championship participants in a given discipline isn't indicative of anything beyond that specific fact.

We haven't even defined popular as a term (popular with fans, popular with wrestlers, most youth participants?), and you're throwing ad hominem grenades into the thread?

And for clarity's sake, I'm not even claiming Greco isn't more popular.  I'd just like the term defined, and some relevant evidence to review.

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I've seen this effing jingoistic word now a few times on this board.

Honestly it's agitating the $HlT out of me.

Stop using it.

There are simpler, more widely used words that make more sense.

Don't be a ponce.

Stop using the word.

Let it die.

Nobody will care.

Ever.

So stop.

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Also back to the subject, simple search at the UWW events/results will show you that at every tournament in 2019 where both Greco and Freestyle were contested there were more total Greco competitors than men's freestyle competitors.

So that 'one wrestler per nation' shtick can gtfoh.

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It's pretty obvious no one knows the answer, at least no one here. 

It's pretty silly to base it on the number of participants at one championship. I would measure it by the number of certified participants in each style around  the world. But as I write that, I realize I don't  know if a wrestler who joins his national federation even specifies one style or the other.

 

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Have to agree Greco is a snooze fest 99% of the time, just like baseball, soccer, watching paint dry, etc. I can appreciate that there are those who enjoy the style, personally I’d rather see Greco done away with & expand the number of weights for both men’s & women’s freestyle. 

Edited by CrewWrestling

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3 hours ago, whaletail said:

Because some of us aren't taking your word for it, we're jingoistic?  And christ, given some of your recent claims, why on earth would we?  

I'm sorry, but the number of World Championship participants in a given discipline isn't indicative of anything beyond that specific fact.

We haven't even defined popular as a term (popular with fans, popular with wrestlers, most youth participants?), and you're throwing ad hominem grenades into the thread?

And for clarity's sake, I'm not even claiming Greco isn't more popular.  I'd just like the term defined, and some relevant evidence to review.

then find it... because everything points to greco being more popular...

as in more countries participating on a consistent basis...

as in tournaments overseas with consistently more greco participants...

but, hey... if you can't wrap your mind around it, perhaps this is a valuable life lesson for you...

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I've seen this effing jingoistic word now a few times on this board.

Honestly it's agitating the $HlT out of me.

Stop using it.

There are simpler, more widely used words that make more sense.

Don't be a ponce.

Stop using the word.

Let it die.

Nobody will care.

Ever.

So stop.

fine...

no more jingoistic...

i'll start using just the more common jingoism and structure it in a sentence where the root word can be used properly...

 

 

 

 

or not...

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Greco is a snooze fest because of the risk/reward factor. Wrestlers at the world level just do not take enough chances on their feet. Another reason is the current rules we have in place.....Stop doing forced par terre, and bring back forced clinch for the next cycle. Also would be interesting if we brought back the “slip”....I know it’s already in place but use it more often and it needs to be better defined for the officials. At the end of the day we need to see more throws. Wrestlers at a high level just don’t do it any more because one missed throw (even if they belly out) will cost them the match.

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22 minutes ago, LJB said:

fine...

no more jingoistic...

i'll start using just the more common jingoism and structure it in a sentence where the root word can be used properly...

 

 

 

 

or not...

You're USifA-ean yes? It's called patriotism or nationalism.

Don't be a friggen ponce.

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World championships numbers are not good indicators because of the mentioned, one per weight per country. TV/online viewership also not good indicators, many many regions across the world where Greco is extremely popular simply do not have the access to tv/streaming other regions do (Deghestan anyone?)

My opinion, best indicator would be the national championships of the various countries...cadet/junior/senior. 

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6 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

You're USifA-ean yes? It's called patriotism or nationalism.

Don't be a friggen ponce.

don't you think it is kinda silly that a word makes you this uncomfortable?

clearly, it is not the meaning because you are just fine with other words that reference the same thing...

this sounds like a you problem...

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2 minutes ago, LJB said:

don't you think it is kinda silly that a word makes you this uncomfortable?

clearly, it is not the meaning because you are just fine with other words that reference the same thing...

this sounds like a you problem...

Or you could just quit acting like a ponce.

Jingoistic insinuates that everything with it is done in an aggressive manner... xenophobic if you will.  Not everyone is being aggressive with it.

The word doesn't make me uncomfortable. The misuse of the word does.

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2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Or you could just quit acting like a ponce.

Jingoistic insinuates that everything with it is done in an aggressive manner... xenophobic if you will.  Not everyone is being aggressive with it.

The word doesn't make me uncomfortable. The misuse of the word does.

GRECO SUKS!!!!!

IT SHOULD BE KICKED OUT OF THE OLYMPICS!!!!

sounds aggressive, doesn't it?

either way, i am afraid you will just have to get over your issues...

 

 

 

or not...

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5 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

I said there was no good way to determine. And it would be a matter of definition. How would you decide this? Your apparent approach was to see how many views there would be for greco vs fs. But someone with Flo Pro might then count as hundreds vs someone in a more "developing" country that could only attend in person and might only have one time in a year to do even that. But is viewership how to determine this popularity contest at all? Greco might have more competitors in a number of countries as suggested above. But the total number of competitors world-wide might still favor FS because of things like Hasek's suggestion about India having more FS. It's a matter of definition.

At the end of the day this argument has to be decided by numbers and here’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about:

Arguably the greatest Greco wrestler of all time won his 3rd Olympic gold at heavyweight in 2016. Match has 450k views over last 3 years on YouTube.

Burroughs and Chamizo wrestled for bronze at the world championships last year...550k views in 10 months.

Here’s a more objective comparison as well, one that can’t be explained away by Burroughs unique popularity and the fact the Cuban fans probably don’t have access to YouTube:

Last year’s greco world final at 63kg: Russian vs Uzbekistan: 54k views on YouTube

Last year’s freestyle world final at 74kg: Russian vs Georgian: 195k views on YouTube.

I picked the 2 above because they both feature a Russian vs a former soviet bloc country...so they aren’t skewed by having an American or Indian wrestler involved (who have much larger fan bases due to home country population). I’d be willing to bet Americans counted for less than 10% of the views for both matches. 

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Man I wish Dake/Ringer had some controversy. I’ve never seen so much pointless disdain over one’s use of a single term as there has been on here this week. 

Apologies.

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1 minute ago, MDogg said:

At the end of the day this argument has to be decided by numbers and here’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about:

Arguably the greatest Greco wrestler of all time won his 3rd Olympic gold at heavyweight in 2016. Match has 450k views over last 3 years on YouTube.

Burroughs and Chamizo wrestled for bronze at the world championships last year...550k views in 10 months.

Here’s a more objective comparison as well, one that can’t be explained away by Burroughs unique popularity and the fact the Cuban fans probably don’t have access to YouTube:

Last year’s greco world final at 63kg: Russian vs Uzbekistan: 54k views on YouTube

Last year’s freestyle world final at 74kg: Russian vs Georgian: 195k views on YouTube.

I picked the 2 above because they both feature a Russian vs a former soviet bloc country...so they aren’t skewed by having an American or Indian wrestler involved (who have much larger fan bases due to home country population). I’d be willing to bet Americans counted for less than 10% of the views for both matches. 

But America probably gives more viewership to YouTube than every other country in the world combined. (Maybe not, but you get my point). And American wrestling fans who follow the senior level are very interested in Russian/Former Soviet bloc wrestling. I mean flo covers the Russian nationals. And since most of Flo’s viewers are in the states, which style is going to get more viewership even though it is Russian nationals?

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2 minutes ago, MDogg said:

At the end of the day this argument has to be decided by numbers and here’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about:

Arguably the greatest Greco wrestler of all time won his 3rd Olympic gold at heavyweight in 2016. Match has 450k views over last 3 years on YouTube.

Burroughs and Chamizo wrestled for bronze at the world championships last year...550k views in 10 months.

Here’s a more objective comparison as well, one that can’t be explained away by Burroughs unique popularity and the fact the Cuban fans probably don’t have access to YouTube:

Last year’s greco world final at 63kg: Russian vs Uzbekistan: 54k views on YouTube

Last year’s freestyle world final at 74kg: Russian vs Georgian: 195k views on YouTube.

I picked the 2 above because they both feature a Russian vs a former soviet bloc country...so they aren’t skewed by having an American or Indian wrestler involved (who have much larger fan bases due to home country population). I’d be willing to bet Americans counted for less than 10% of the views for both matches. 

so, your inflated youtube numbers are a better indicator than participation?

surely you can see where that has holes all over it purely by the availabilty of internet access and usage around this globe... 

but, don't let that get in your way...

 

and as great as lopez is, karelin was the most feared wrestler of all time...

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