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All these People Who Say Greco is Popular

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14 minutes ago, MDogg said:

At the end of the day this argument has to be decided by numbers and here’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about:

Arguably the greatest Greco wrestler of all time won his 3rd Olympic gold at heavyweight in 2016. Match has 450k views over last 3 years on YouTube.

Burroughs and Chamizo wrestled for bronze at the world championships last year...550k views in 10 months.

Here’s a more objective comparison as well, one that can’t be explained away by Burroughs unique popularity and the fact the Cuban fans probably don’t have access to YouTube:

Last year’s greco world final at 63kg: Russian vs Uzbekistan: 54k views on YouTube

Last year’s freestyle world final at 74kg: Russian vs Georgian: 195k views on YouTube.

I picked the 2 above because they both feature a Russian vs a former soviet bloc country...so they aren’t skewed by having an American or Indian wrestler involved (who have much larger fan bases due to home country population). I’d be willing to bet Americans counted for less than 10% of the views for both matches. 

Again, this only shows views. Of course, the Americans will watch Burroughs/Chamizo. And these numbers only reaffirm that FS is more popular here. That's kind of a Captain Obvious statement. It might be that FS is also more popular in Russia. 

By your definition your stats are good but by other stats apparently not so much.

I wouldn't be surprised that you could easily prove that US folkstyle is the most popular style in the world by using these same kind of stats. Given Flo, Track, YouTube, etc I wouldn't be surprised that there are far more views in total of events in this country than all others across the world.

I'm not trying to say Greco is or isn't more popular across the world. I have no idea. Just that there's no way to determine it unless you set a narrow definition like you did.

Edited by gimpeltf

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1 minute ago, gimpeltf said:

And these numbers only reaffirm that FS is more popular here. 

Disagree with that statement. I would bet that Americans counted for less than 10% of the views in my second example set (not the one involving Burroughs/Chamizo). YouTube is the dominant global platform for video. If you think it’s viewer base is too USA-centric just go look at the comments under both videos.

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9 hours ago, LJB said:

Proportionality, huh?

you made the statement there were more freestyle wrestlers in America than all Greco wrestlers in all of Western europe...

lets see those numbers... 

then let’s see them adjusted per capita seeing as though you are such a fan of proportionality...

 

why would you use per capita? we're talking absolute numbers in the world. I also said "without looking up the numbers". so if anyone wants to provide them and contest my theory regarding the popularity of both styles, please do! 

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3 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

why would you use per capita? we're talking absolute numbers in the world. I also said "without looking up the numbers". so if anyone wants to provide them and contest my theory regarding the popularity of both styles, please do! 

proportionality... a varying number wioth a constant ratio to another...

surely you can see the correlation?

and for sure, anyone wants to dispute the claim greco is more popular, then please provide the and contest my theory...

you could probably even get paid for this, spey... 

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10 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Disagree with that statement. I would bet that Americans counted for less than 10% of the views in my second example set (not the one involving Burroughs/Chamizo). YouTube is the dominant global platform for video. If you think it’s viewer base is too USA-centric just go look at the comments under both videos.

i'm going to go ahead and stick with actual participation as a better indicator than youtube comments...

ever heard of jumping the shark?

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

i'm going to go ahead and stick with actual participation as a better indicator than youtube comments...

ever heard of jumping the shark?

Great. Going by participation, men’s and women’s freestyle have far more participants than Greco does. Case closed. 

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fun thought experiment time!

lets say you are a juice company, and you want to figure out what flavor of juice that you sell is more popular, apple juice or orange juice. you sell in a market of 12 different countries. in two countries, you sell both products, but apple juice is much more popular. in five countries, you sell both products, but orange juice is more popular. and in five other countries, you only sell orange juice. they people in those last five countries buy no apple juice whatsoever. 

looks like orange juice is more popular! it's more popular in 10 of the 12 countries you operate in! 

except there's no way to know which is more popular until know more about those countries. lets say the two countries where apple juice is far more popular are the USA and Canada, the five countries where orange juice is only slightly more popular are small central american countries, and the five countries where only orange juice is sold are very small caribbean island nations.

then you when you look at all your customers, you have far more that buy apple juice and not orange juice. you also bring in far more revenue with apple juice than orange juice. 

wow, fun thought experiment imo. 

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Also back to the subject, simple search at the UWW events/results will show you that at every tournament in 2019 where both Greco and Freestyle were contested there were more total Greco competitors than men's freestyle competitors.

So that 'one wrestler per nation' shtick can gtfoh.

which tournaments are you looking at and where do you see their total participation numbers please?

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15 minutes ago, Katie said:

Great. Going by participation, men’s and women’s freestyle have far more participants than Greco does. Case closed. 

in 1978 i got my first kiss record... KISS ALIVE II

i loved that LP... 

then it got a big scratch in it... just kept playing the same note on "Ladies Room" over and over...

why do you remind me of that?

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7 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

fun thought experiment time!

lets say you are a juice company, and you want to figure out what flavor of juice that you sell is more popular, apple juice or orange juice. you sell in a market of 12 different countries. in two countries, you sell both products, but apple juice is much more popular. in five countries, you sell both products, but orange juice is more popular. and in five other countries, you only sell orange juice. they people in those last five countries buy no apple juice whatsoever. 

looks like orange juice is more popular! it's more popular in 10 of the 12 countries you operate in! 

except there's no way to know which is more popular until know more about those countries. lets say the two countries where apple juice is far more popular are the USA and Canada, the five countries where orange juice is only slightly more popular are small central american countries, and the five countries where only orange juice is sold are very small caribbean island nations.

then you when you look at all your customers, you have far more that buy apple juice and not orange juice. you also bring in far more revenue with apple juice than orange juice. 

wow, fun thought experiment imo. 

hence the per capita statement you pishawed earlier...

many numbers have little value without qualifiers...

"this country with a population of a million has more free style wrestlers than these 4 countries have greco wrestlers in total!!!!"

(4 countries have a total combined population of 42K)

you are so right... such fun "thought experiments"

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14 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

which tournaments are you looking at and where do you see their total participation numbers please?

"without looking up the numbers". so if anyone wants to provide them and contest my theory regarding the popularity of both styles, please do! 

 

sound familiar?

dispute his claims, the onus is on you...

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20 minutes ago, LJB said:

in 1978 i got my first kiss record... KISS ALIVE II

i loved that LP... 

then it got a big scratch in it... just kept playing the same note on "Ladies Room" over and over...

why do you remind me of that?

I suppose bad music is something you can understand. 

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20 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

which tournaments are you looking at and where do you see their total participation numbers please?

Just the events that have GR/FS/WFS listed.  Did a count of the qualification rounds total, and GR had a total more.  I didn't actually count list by list.  Just like the other numbers listed by others here, it was extremely close and Greco didn't have more in every weight than FS.  It was comparable at worst, with a lean towards GR.

14 minutes ago, LJB said:

"without looking up the numbers". so if anyone wants to provide them and contest my theory regarding the popularity of both styles, please do! 

 

sound familiar?

dispute his claims, the onus is on you...

Not trying to state it as fact, my man.  Just throwing out that while gandering through I counted the 2019, because I had the time.  I did it from my fone, so I wasn't at a spot to record anything, so nothing can be taken as fact there.  I am human. We are well capable of error on even more basic levels.

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20 minutes ago, LJB said:

hence the per capita statement you pishawed earlier...

many numbers have little value without qualifiers...

"this country with a population of a million has more free style wrestlers than these 4 countries have greco wrestlers in total!!!!"

(4 countries have a total combined population of 42K)

you are so right... such fun "thought experiments"

i still don't follow why we would be talking about per capita numbers. we want total numbers. not per capita numbers. 

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2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Not trying to state it as fact, my man.  Just throwing out that while gandering through I counted the 2019, because I had the time.  I did it from my fone, so I wasn't at a spot to record anything, so nothing can be taken as fact there.  I am human. We are well capable of error on even more basic levels.

with all due respect... and remember, i am saying WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...

you might have missed the point of my comment...

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Just now, Jaroslav Hasek said:

i still don't follow why we would be talking about per capita numbers. we want total numbers. not per capita numbers. 

then don't make claims that a country with a huge population has more X than several smaller countries combined with much lower populations...

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18 minutes ago, LJB said:

"without looking up the numbers". so if anyone wants to provide them and contest my theory regarding the popularity of both styles, please do! 

 

sound familiar?

dispute his claims, the onus is on you...

I'm not disputing his claims. i asked what numbers so I could also look up the numbers.

man, this topic has really got you wound up. relax my good dude, no one is trying to start a fight. 

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1 minute ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

I'm not disputing his claims. i asked what numbers so I could also look up the numbers.

man, this topic has really got you wound up. relax my good dude, no one is trying to start a fight. 

trust me, i am not wound up... this is actually amusing for me... 

a welcome distraction from PODs databases...

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2 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

why not? it's true and has nothing to with per capita calculations. 

then don't dispute the actual participation numbers in world championships across all age groups that heavily favor greco participation...

as in more countries are invested in greco...

if you keep wanting to have your cake and eat it as well, that clutch shirt is gonna get even more tight...

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Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

If you have legit numbers, just wait two seconds and someone will come up with reasons to dispute those legit numbers and throw out their legitimacy with another statistic that's subjective or inherently biased based on the accessibility to data that fills those statistics.

Since I've been covering the World Championships since 2003, and every single year at the Worlds with all three style represented, Greco-Roman has had more entries among the three outlined styles of wrestling by the international federation.

 

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16 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

man, this topic has really got you wound up. relax my good dude, no one is trying to start a fight. 

You say this a lot. It's underhanded. Stop. Do better.

Edited by jon

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1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

I didn't take it as him disputing, but genuinely wanting to know where I looked.

the point was, when spey was asked the a similar question earlier in the thread he responded with, "i'm not going to bother backing my claims with any real numbers, if you want to dispute them, then you go look up the info"

and then just a few hours later he is asking you where you got your information he doesn't agree with...

that is the kind of stuff that makes me giggle profusely...

 

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