Jump to content
NJDan

All these People Who Say Greco is Popular

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, LJB said:

then find it... because everything points to greco being more popular...

as in more countries participating on a consistent basis...

as in tournaments overseas with consistently more greco participants...

but, hey... if you can't wrap your mind around it, perhaps this is a valuable life lesson for you...

I'm sorry, but neither of your examples are anything more than interesting facts; absent context, they don't address popularity at all.  There are myriad reasons both could be true that have nothing to do with popularity.

Of course, if the IOC allotted Greco more weights than freestyle due to worldwide interest, or wrestler preference, etc., that would be evidence it was the more popular discipline (or at least the consulted sources would be).

 

 

Edited by whaletail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, whaletail said:

I'm sorry, but neither of your examples are anything more than interesting facts; absent context, they don't address popularity at all.  There are myriad reasons both could be true that have nothing to do with popularity.

Of course, if the IOC allotted Greco more weights than freestyle due to worldwide interest, or wrestler preference, etc., that would be evidence it was the more popular discipline (or at least the consulted sources would be).

 

 

i'm sorry, but neither youtube views or youtube comments are anything more than interesting facts; absent context, they don't address popularity at all.  There are myriad reasons both could be true that have nothing to do with popularity.

Of course, if the IOC allotted freestyle more weights than Greco due to worldwide interest, or wrestler preference, etc., that would be evidence it was the more popular discipline (or at least the consulted sources would be).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:

Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics.

If you have legit numbers, just wait two seconds and someone will come up with reasons to dispute those legit numbers and throw out their legitimacy with another statistic that's subjective or inherently biased based on the accessibility to data that fills those statistics.

Since I've been covering the World Championships since 2003, and every single year at the Worlds with all three style represented, Greco-Roman has had more entries among the three outlined styles of wrestling by the international federation.

 

But what does that mean?  That they can't fill the Senior Freestyle brackets?  Considering the qualification process, that seems unlikely.

And I don't dispute your claims lightly.  I understand that you're as close to an international wrestling expert as we've got, and appreciate your contributions immensely.

Nonetheless, the fact that every WC features more Greco participants than any other discipline, does not - on its face - indicate Greco is the more popular style.

Moreover, until we define popularity (as it pertains to this discussion), we're just trying to talk over each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, whaletail said:

But what does that mean?  That they can't fill the Senior Freestyle brackets?  Considering the qualification process, that seems unlikely.

And I don't dispute your claims lightly.  I understand that you're as close to an international wrestling expert as we've got, and appreciate your contributions immensely.

Nonetheless, the fact that every WC features more Greco participants than any other discipline, does not - on its face - indicate Greco is the more popular style.

Moreover, until we define popularity (as it pertains to this discussion), we're just trying to talk over each other.

it 100% indicate that more countries participate in greco...

why do you continually ignore that fact?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LJB said:

i'm sorry, but neither youtube views or youtube comments are anything more than interesting facts; absent context, they don't address popularity at all.  There are myriad reasons both could be true that have nothing to do with popularity.

Of course, if the IOC allotted freestyle more weights than Greco due to worldwide interest, or wrestler preference, etc., that would be evidence it was the more popular discipline (or at least the consulted sources would be).

I don't disagree.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so, to recap, participant numbers in age level world championships where the one wrestler per nation per weight is in effect tells us virtually nothing about the relative popularities of the styles. the USA sends the same number of participants to the world championships in all 3 styles, and yet we all know the popularity of each style in the USA is not equal. 

what we want is total participation numbers, and other broad measurements, like audience size and money invested in the styles. the number of participants in tournaments with all styles but with no limit on entries per nation will get us closer to that info, and though it would be far from perfect, is interesting enough on it's own to be worth looking into.

and in my humble and potentially incorrect opinion, that world wide there is a much larger audience for freestyle than greco, and there are far more practitioners of freestyle than greco.the fact that a few dozen small nordic and eastern european countries each sends a handful of greco roman wrestlers to world championships but zero freestylers does not change that opinion. 

thanks for the convo and enjoy the weekend my friends!

edit: sorry if Jon or LBJ think I was being a dick to them, it just seemed like they were getting mad and I was hoping to calm them down. sorry if i failed at that!

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Nonetheless, the fact that every WC features more Greco participants than any other discipline, does not - on its face - indicate Greco is the more popular style.

 

To me, that's exactly what it says.

It shouldn't be that hard to fathom that what many might find boring is popular other places. Soccer, hello!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
0
 Advanced issues found
 
2
3 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

I haven't seen one legitimate counter argument as to why Greco has more entries other then people downplaying these "lesser populated countries," 

I'm not trying to downplay those countries. i would just be shocked if there weren't more freestyle fans participants in the USA than there were greco fans and participants in sweden, norway, denmark, finland, lithuania, latvia, estonia, serbia and croatia combined. would love to find out there are large greco followings and full gyms of competitors in those countries though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LJB said:

it 100% indicate that more countries participate in greco...

why do you continually ignore that fact?

Because it doesn't indicate - on its face - that Greco is the more popular discipline, especially considering we haven't defined popularity.

Without defining the debate, we're all putting the cart before the horse.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Because it doesn't indicate - on its face - that Greco is the more popular discipline, especially considering we haven't defined popularity.

Without defining the debate, we're all putting the cart before the horse.

 

 

so, substantially more countries sending wrestlers in all age groups every year to wrestle greco does not indicate anything about the popularity of the style?

you know what?

i was married once... this type of reasoning feels very familiar...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

To me, that's exactly what it says.

It shouldn't be that hard to fathom that what many might find boring is popular other places. Soccer, hello!

It's not at all hard to fathom, and I'm not arguing freestyle is more popular.

I'm simply not convinced that greater participation at Senior WCs indicates general popularity.

Again, it might help to define popularity prior to debating these claims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

edit: sorry if Jon or LBJ think I was being a dick to them, it just seemed like they were getting mad and I was hoping to calm them down. sorry if i failed at that!

for the record, i don't think you were being a dick... just silly and clearly have some double standard tendencies...

but, that just makes you the norm... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LJB said:

so, substantially more countries sending wrestlers in all age groups every year to wrestle greco does not indicate anything about the popularity of the style?

you know what?

i was married once... this type of reasoning feels very familiar...

Where did "substantially more" come from, let alone at all age levels?  

If you have statistics to support those claims, please link them.  Although we still haven't defined popularity, and I'm not sure they're at all dispositive, they're certainly meaningful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, whaletail said:

It's not at all hard to fathom, and I'm not arguing freestyle is more popular.

I'm simply not convinced that greater participation at Senior WCs indicates general popularity.

Again, it might help to define popularity prior to debating these claims.

not just at seniors... across all age levels...

i am willing to go out on a limb and define popularity as a long and storied history of many more countries sending participants to wrestle in tournaments that represent the pinnacle of the sport...

there...

that was easy enough... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Where did "substantially more" come from, let alone at all age levels?  

If you have statistics to support those claims, please link them.  Although we still haven't defined popularity, and I'm not sure they're at all dispositive, they're certainly meaningful.

Cadet worlds this year

greco- 249

free- 207

junior worlds this year

greco- 255

free- 230

every year at seniors more Greco than free

 

that was posted last night...

i don't expect that you will feel that those "substantially" different numbers in participation will indicate anything...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LJB said:

not just at seniors... across all age levels...

i am willing to go out on a limb and define popularity as a long and storied history of many more countries sending participants to wrestle in tournaments that represent the pinnacle of the sport...

there...

that was easy enough... 

Links to support those claim?

If Jason agrees that substantially more countries send more reps at every age level, that still isn't dispositive, but it's absolutely relevant.

Personally, the most compelling statistic I can think of would be youth participation, across all skill levels, worldwide (sadly, that's unavailable).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

edit: sorry if Jon or LBJ think I was being a dick to them, it just seemed like they were getting mad and I was hoping to calm them down. sorry if i failed at that!

Your statement is lazy, weird, to my eyes insincere. I called you a dick. There's no 'if' about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Links to support those claim?

If Jason agrees that substantially more countries send more reps at every age level, that still isn't dispositive, but it's absolutely relevant.

Personally, the most compelling statistic I can think of would be youth participation, across all skill levels, worldwide (sadly, that's unavailable).

see above... it was the second time i posted that in this thread...

twice is "substantially" more than 1 or 0...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LJB said:

Cadet worlds this year

greco- 249

free- 207

junior worlds this year

greco- 255

free- 230

every year at seniors more Greco than free

 

that was posted last night...

i don't expect that you will feel that those "substantially" different numbers in participation will indicate anything...

I think those numbers at absolutely relevant, and I think you can reasonably argue that Greco probably is more popular.

I don't think the delta is substantial, but that's subjective, and semantic.

I'd still like to better understand the levels of youth participation at all skill levels, but it does appear that Greco is more popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I think those numbers at absolutely relevant, and I think you can reasonably argue that Greco probably is more popular.

I don't think the delta is substantial, but that's subjective, and semantic.

I'd still like to better understand the levels of youth participation at all skill levels, but it does appear that Greco is more popular.

i will say, i am impressed... you do realize you have just separated yourself from 98% of the population...

i tip my cap to you...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the question is, are there more freestyle or Greco wrestlers at UWW events, it has to be freestyle by a healthy margin (when you count female and male freestyle wrestlers).

If the question is, which style generates more money in the free market, it seems to be freestyle. As far as I’m aware, there are three professional freestyle leagues (Germany, India, Iran) and zero professional Greco leagues. 

If the question is, who has the higher viewership numbers, we can’t answer that, as far I know. I am not aware of there being reliable on stats on live and broadcast viewership.

I think that pretty much wraps up the discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...