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Zain / Yianni - Final X part 2 - match thread

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5 minutes ago, TheWrestlingGonad said:

Zain is amongst the best in the world, I've heard some folks on here saying he isn't ready.  his last international loss was to two time World Silver Rashidov on a last second takedown.  He's right there.  

 

Completely agree with this. Also, I don’t know why people seem to think Yianni will be the better rep at worlds. I wanted Yianni to win, but I think that either would have an equal shot at a medal. 

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1 minute ago, alliseeisgold said:

remember at yargin he had the russian beat and then just went into not to lose mode. His mindset has changed in this yanni series, the let it fly keep the pedal to the medal zain is a different zain.  Why are we not giving zain his respect? nobody would be saying yanni has no chance to medal. but they are about zain. Well yanni we know has beaten top guys in the world at the weight and zain just decisively beat yanni.  

Yeah,  the Russian is Rashidov the two time silver, I mentioned.  and I  agree with ya,  Zain has improved since then.

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29 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

couple thoughts 

-this wrestleoff was ideal for zain peaking for worlds. This pushed zain to improve. nobody at worlds will be more peaked then zain

- zain looked so jacked up and powerful at the end; if this was a folkstyle match how many minutes does zain ride yanni like a mule ? the whole damn match

- how good is pico ? he outhorsed and pushed around a ridiculously strong retherford

-yanni seems to respect the world more than he does zain. he seems fascinated with the world and not with zain. He needs to try to make the damn team first.

The Pico references are beyond dated at this point.  How many years have passed and how many levels have they interchanged, switched, etc.  To suggest that this version of Zain isn't better than those previous versions of Zain essentially nullifies every argument ever made regarding someone improving over time. 

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Watched the video.  Smart.  Mature.  "if world championships were today, I think I'd be ready"  Yup.  Knee isn't an issue.  Feels 100%.  Nice words for Yianni's skill level. 'Funkiest wrestler I've ever wrestled' .... I do think this will help Zain vs the world.  

Dogu helped Zain recognize how mindset matters. He adjusted his.  And won.  

And now he is ready to take on the world.  

Go Zain!

 

 

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2 hours ago, red blades said:

No; his last international loss was to Yianni.

Perhaps Zain's last loss to Yianni (and similar cases abroad) should be referred to an "intermestic" decision.  It occurred at an international match but against a domestic opponent. 

In other words, it was "glocal" (global and local).

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There was a Fargo thread a little while back where I and others criticized Flo live broadcasts generally and Willie specifically.  I tried to go back to it for this post, but it's closed to replies (not sure why).  So I'll post my thought here -- that the Pyles/Willie announcing (as well as Willie's post match interview with Zain) was solid, understated, and direct, and up to the level of this important event.  

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14 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

This. Zain was for sure the aggressor. And Yianni didn't create anything. 90% of what he does at this level is counter. Zain and NLWC have him figured out. 

I get that you're hyped your guy won, and enyoying the moment, but I suspect you're perceptive enough to recognize that this was just one more chapter in what could well end up a pretty long book.

Each wrestler has made adjustments after every loss, and Zain's post Dogu adjustments won him this match.  His post Open adjustments for Final X notwithstanding, most of us still somehow sold him short in that area coming into this match, and we were obviously wrong.  In retrospect, I put way too much stock in the Dogu match, especially considering we now know Zain was wrestling angry.  Nor did I expect Zain to be at 100%, and at this level, no one's toughing out wins.  This isn't high school wrestling, and in freestyle, the slightest lapse can leave you tech falled.

Zain wrestled incredibly well yesterday, and at Final X, but to dismiss Yianni as some sort of counter wrestle, unable to generate his own offense - is as absurd as me assuming the Dogu match was some sort of snapshot of their respective senior level futures.

Clearly, either guy can win on any given day, and next year's Olympic Trails can't come soon enough.

Congratulations to Zain, and best of luck at Worlds!

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14 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

Yianni has become too dependent on sitting that corner to score and the tip of the top guys can defend there. He may get it on them once but they seem to adapt to it. Yianni needs to add to his arsenal. 

His defense is incredible, but he really needs to improve his head hands defense.  Ironically, Zain is one of the best in that area, and sure enough, Yianni couldn't get any clean attacks off.

Nonetheless, once he'd sat the corner yesterday, I wish he'd committed to locking through the crotch  and trying to roll him through.  Even with Zain flattening his hips, Yianni appeared to have tremendous leverage, and trying to break Zain's grip and spin behind just wasn't working.

In the scramble where Yianni's takedown was (justifiably) white paddled, I'm pretty sure he managed to secure a lace just as the ref stalemated them, and I wish he'd been given the opportunity to continue wrestling.  I'm not sure he had enough height on Zain to turn it into an exposure, but he'd just worked to an advantageous position.

In any case, I think he has to work primarily on keeping opponents off his legs, and setting up his own attacks better.  I think he has plenty of attacks, but if he can't get through Zain's head/hands, they're pretty useless.

Nonetheless, that may have been the most exciting 2-1 match - in any discipline - I've ever seen.

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32 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I get that you're hyped your guy won, and enyoying the moment, but I suspect you're perceptive enough to recognize that this was just one more chapter in what could well end up a pretty long book.

Each wrestler has made adjustments after every loss, and Zain's post Dogu adjustments won him this match.  His post Open adjustments for Final X notwithstanding, most of us still somehow sold him short in that area coming into this match, and we were obviously wrong.  In retrospect, I put way too much stock in the Dogu match, especially considering we now know Zain was wrestling angry.  Nor did I expect Zain to be at 100%, and at this level, no one's toughing out wins.  This isn't high school wrestling, and in freestyle, the slightest lapse can leave you tech falled.

Zain wrestled incredibly well yesterday, and at Final X, but to dismiss Yianni as some sort of counter wrestle, unable to generate his own offense - is as absurd as me assuming the Dogu match was some sort of snapshot of their respective senior level futures.

Clearly, either guy can win on any given day, and next year's Olympic Trails can't come soon enough.

Congratulations to Zain, and best of luck at Worlds!

That is exactly what the majority of this board did, they put Yianni on this Pedestal 

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1 hour ago, whaletail said:

I get that you're hyped your guy won, and enyoying the moment, but I suspect you're perceptive enough to recognize that this was just one more chapter in what could well end up a pretty long book.

Each wrestler has made adjustments after every loss, and Zain's post Dogu adjustments won him this match.  His post Open adjustments for Final X notwithstanding, most of us still somehow sold him short in that area coming into this match, and we were obviously wrong.  In retrospect, I put way too much stock in the Dogu match, especially considering we now know Zain was wrestling angry.  Nor did I expect Zain to be at 100%, and at this level, no one's toughing out wins.  This isn't high school wrestling, and in freestyle, the slightest lapse can leave you tech falled.

Zain wrestled incredibly well yesterday, and at Final X, but to dismiss Yianni as some sort of counter wrestle, unable to generate his own offense - is as absurd as me assuming the Dogu match was some sort of snapshot of their respective senior level futures.

Clearly, either guy can win on any given day, and next year's Olympic Trails can't come soon enough.

Congratulations to Zain, and best of luck at Worlds!

Ok. Very good post. I will freely admit I was semi trolling with that prior post. 

I will say this much, fans of this sport should by now realize that Cael and his fellow coaches know how to game plan to make the needed adjustments when their guys come up short. Sometimes it isn't possible because the other wrestler is on another level, but when the two are on the same level they know how to adjust to things. For Zain to shut down Yianni's offense, both Yianni's shots and all his great counter offense, that was exciting to watch. 

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Ok. Very good post. I will freely admit I was semi trolling with that prior post. 

I will say this much, fans of this sport should by now realize that Cael and his fellow coaches know how to game plan to make the needed adjustments when their guys come up short. Sometimes it isn't possible because the other wrestler is on another level, but when the two are on the same level they know how to adjust to things. For Zain to shut down Yianni's offense, both Yianni's shots and all his great counter offense, that was exciting to watch. 

Clearly Cael and company are in the highest coaching tier.  Penn State's NCAA performances, and the NLWC's senior level success, demonstrates that.

Whether Koll, Smith and Brands etc. are also in that tier, or one below, I don't know.  I'm not familiar enough with coaching, especially good coaching, to distinguish.

I went to J. Rob's 28 day intensive camp decades ago, and learned great technique and how to push beyond my perceived limits, but those coaches weren't working with us individually, and weren't preparing us for matches, so even in that environment, I never really understood how helpful good coaching can be.

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18 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

remember at yargin he had the russian beat and then just went into not to lose mode. His mindset has changed in this yanni series, the let it fly keep the pedal to the medal zain is a different zain.  Why are we not giving zain his respect? nobody would be saying yanni has no chance to medal. but they are about zain. Well yanni we know has beaten top guys in the world at the weight and zain just decisively beat yanni.  

Personally, I valued the Dogu win too much, and in the immediate aftermath, the Bajrang win as well.

Although I'm sure Bajrang took the match seriously, it was only an exhibition, and I doubt he'll be the same guy at Worlds.  Looking at that win in context, the early difficulties with Musukaev, and knowing just how tough 65 kg is this year, I got off the "Yianni could be WC" bandwagon awhile ago.

That said, I won't be surprised if both he and Zain significantly improve over the next ten months, with the Trials winner a legit medal threat in Tokyo.  

Nor do I expect JO, for example, to give Zain any problems from here on.  It's Yianni or Zain until the latter retires.

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1 hour ago, whaletail said:

Personally, I valued the Dogu win too much, and in the immediate aftermath, the Bajrang win as well.

Although I'm sure Bajrang took the match seriously, it was only an exhibition, and I doubt he'll be the same guy at Worlds. 

I have read many posts on this board about how Beat the Streets is just an exhibition and to not over value results from BTS. I considered making just such a post after this year's event, but the Yianni excitement and pedestal mounting were in such full swing I figured a bunch of Cornell guys would just rip on that so c'est la vie. Hindsight is a wonderful instructor. 

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