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1 hour ago, Molsen said:

I didnt know this match determined our representative for then next few years. That doesnt make much sense.

So are you trying to be as annoying as tbar generally is, or does it come naturally? 

Both wrestlers wrestled great, if you have paid attention to the back and forth they have been on at all, you would know that either can win the spot next year. 

I'm rooting for Zain at worlds but like another poster said, psu fans make it hard to root for their wrestlers.

You are the one coming off as an idiot, first it’s Yianni is going to win Yianni is the best and you try to attack those that had Zain the entire time. But you are right it’s been back and forth with Zain winning every match with a world team spot on the line. 

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40 minutes ago, Hotkarl712 said:

I know when I don't know the result of a sporting event or TV show/movie I go right to the message board for it before finding out

Love the well placed sarcasm. Gotta think that given we discussed this match ALL SUMMER that chapman knew the result, but if not then its on him for checking in here first. 

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Well, I was surprised by this match. The first surprise was when Zain shot in and seemed to get exposed for two, but when no points were scored I thought Zain dodged a bullet, but then the brick came in from Zain's corner, I was scratching my head because looking at the exchange I didn't see two for Zain there so I am not sure what was being discussed in Zain's corner. 

I was also thinking that Zain should've been possibly put on the clock because it looked to me that Yianni was taking the shots and holding center. Lastly, I was surprised that there wasn't more offense being generated by both wrestlers during the course of the match. 

Anyway congrats to Zain, I wish him the best of luck at the World's. 

One blogger mentioned Metcalf, so I thought I would chime in on that as well. My thoughts on why Brent never got it done at the World's is I believe that he just put way too pressure on himself, and subsequently I think it hurt his performance. I watched Brent's matches at the World Cup(s) and then at World's in Las Vegas, and he just seemed a lot tighter at the World's. I think the other issues with Brent was the weight class, even though I read an article or watched an interview where he said that he thought that the cut to 65 was good for him because he felt faster, but I thought that with his punishing style he would've been better off at 70 Kg. Additionally, I always thought that Brent was always in great shape and come the World's he may not have had any new level to peak to. It's unfortunate because I liked watching him wrestle, and I really wish he could've medaled at the World's. I believe that he had everything necessary to get it done, it just never happened for him for whatever reason. But as our 65 Kg guy, I thought that he was a really dominant wrestler for us, and he did very well at the World Cup(s), the Yarygin, Baku, and some other international tournaments. 

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9 minutes ago, de4856 said:

Well, I was surprised by this match. The first surprise was when Zain shot in and seemed to get exposed for two, but when no points were scored I thought Zain dodged a bullet, but then the brick came in from Zain's corner, I was scratching my head because looking at the exchange I didn't see two for Zain there so I am not sure what was being discussed in Zain's corner. 

I was also thinking that Zain should've been possibly put on the clock because it looked to me that Yianni was taking the shots and holding center. Lastly, I was surprised that there wasn't more offense being generated by both wrestlers during the course of the match. 

Anyway congrats to Zain, I wish him the best of luck at the World's. 

One blogger mentioned Metcalf, so I thought I would chime in on that as well. My thoughts on why Brent never got it down at the World's is I believe that he just put way too pressure on himself, and subsequently I think it hurt his performance. I watched Brent's matches at the World Cup(s) and then at World's in Las Vegas, and he just seemed a lot tighter at the World's. I think the other issues with Brent was the weight class, even though I read an article or watched an interview where he said that he thought that the cut to 65 was good for him because he felt faster, but I thought that with his punishing style he would've been better off at 70 Kg. Additionally, I always thought that Brent was always in great shape and come the World's he may not have had any new level to peak to. It's unfortunate because I liked watching him wrestle, and I really wish he could've medaled at the World's. I believe that he had everything necessary to get it done, it just never happened for him for whatever reason. But as our 65 Kg guy, I thought that he was a really dominant wrestler for us, and he did very well at the World Cup(s), the Yarygin, Baku, and some other international tournaments. 

I loved Brent too!!!

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Great match and didn't see any controversy. All I saw was great freestyle wrestling especially defensively. Zain can medal at worlds especially if he keeps position like he did today. I learned not to underestimate Retherford his true freshman year at PSU when he upset Logan Stieber. Who saw that coming? 

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27 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Didn't have a dog in this fight, as I'm a big fan of both guys, but after watching their respective years, I think they are both a significant step down from the top guys at this weight at the moment.  65Kgs is an absolute beast.

Agreed.  I was hoping for a second (third) match today just to watch these two go at it some more.  Yianni's flexibility and defense are awesome, the kid will be representing us on the world level at some point.  Tear it up this year Zain, you're our boy!! 

Edited by airmail

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Congrats to Zain, especially for getting through this whole process, with none of it his fault at all. Would love to see him bring home a medal. 

As some say, anyone in the top 10 at 65kg can win the title any given year. So let's see:

1. Bajrang

2. Valdes

3. Otoguro

4. Aliev

5. Rashidov

6. Khinchegashvilli

7,8,9. All Russians

10. Yianni 

11. Japan

12. Zain

 

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6 hours ago, ugarte said:

I thought I read that otoguro lost at Japan nationals. is that a false memory?

I think Japan has two national tournaments.  On at the beginning of the year and one in the middle.  If a wrestler wins both then he/she gets the spot.  I think Otoguro won the first tournament and Heguchi won the June tournament which set up a wrestleoff between them which was won by Otoguro. 

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16 hours ago, OBXWrestler said:

What has Zain done so far that shows he can medal at this weight? 

W over Daichi Takatani (who beat Bajrang)

W multiple times over Diakomihalis

W over Molinaro

W over Oliver

 1 point L's to two different world silver medalists

Not saying he even will medal at Worlds because that is a veryu tough weight class, but suggesting he can't medal seems premature.

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After Yianni torched the field at the open earlier this year I was convinced he was our best shot to medal at 65 in years, I wanted him to make the team more than anybody else this year. I still think he might match up better with the field globally at 65, and am still picking him to win the spot for 2020. But for Yianni fans to act like USA wrestling lost out by Zain making the team is ludicrous. Zain going through the whole ordeal of winning, then the arbitration process, alleged injury deal, and then winning the wrestle off in the first match against a guy as good as Yianni proves Zain to be a contender himself. I hate to borrow an expression from basketball but... ball don’t lie. I can ALMOST (not quite though) understand people not wanting to support Downey as our rep, but to see people not want to get behind Retherford is just obscene 

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On 9/2/2019 at 3:59 PM, alliseeisgold said:

the metcalf argument is an interesting one. Metcalf in his prime I give a more than fair shot of beating Yanni and Retherford from today. He just housed everyone else domestically

And internationally metcalf was there. he beat top guys , he was winning the world cup every year. I just don't think he got it done on the bigger stage.  

I think Zain would beat prime Metcalf in folkstyle pretty handily (and probably Yianni as well), and while it'd likely be closer in freestyle, I'd still pick Zain and Yianni.

May well be recency bias, but we'll never know.

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The only two I see as absolute nightmare matchups for Zain are Bajrang and Oto. I don't see anyone else that he can't break right now.

I am very excited for worlds now. Wrestling Johnny made him SO much better and we're about to see why.

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On 9/2/2019 at 8:05 PM, de4856 said:

Well, I was surprised by this match. The first surprise was when Zain shot in and seemed to get exposed for two, but when no points were scored I thought Zain dodged a bullet, but then the brick came in from Zain's corner, I was scratching my head because looking at the exchange I didn't see two for Zain there so I am not sure what was being discussed in Zain's corner. 

I was also thinking that Zain should've been possibly put on the clock because it looked to me that Yianni was taking the shots and holding center. Lastly, I was surprised that there wasn't more offense being generated by both wrestlers during the course of the match. 

Anyway congrats to Zain, I wish him the best of luck at the World's. 

One blogger mentioned Metcalf, so I thought I would chime in on that as well. My thoughts on why Brent never got it done at the World's is I believe that he just put way too pressure on himself, and subsequently I think it hurt his performance. I watched Brent's matches at the World Cup(s) and then at World's in Las Vegas, and he just seemed a lot tighter at the World's. I think the other issues with Brent was the weight class, even though I read an article or watched an interview where he said that he thought that the cut to 65 was good for him because he felt faster, but I thought that with his punishing style he would've been better off at 70 Kg. Additionally, I always thought that Brent was always in great shape and come the World's he may not have had any new level to peak to. It's unfortunate because I liked watching him wrestle, and I really wish he could've medaled at the World's. I believe that he had everything necessary to get it done, it just never happened for him for whatever reason. But as our 65 Kg guy, I thought that he was a really dominant wrestler for us, and he did very well at the World Cup(s), the Yarygin, Baku, and some other international tournaments. 

I don't know if you remember, but it took Metcalf several years to be able to finish shots cleanly and actually score.  He would get scored on from a counter almost every first score of a match early on in his senior level career.  Hi-C, get countered and scored on like clockwork.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

The only two I see as absolute nightmare matchups for Zain are Bajrang and Oto. I don't see anyone else that he can't break right now.

I am very excited for worlds now. Wrestling Johnny made him SO much better and we're about to see why.

I view Otoguru as a huge threat, with possible gas tank issues that Zain could exploit, but I might actually favor Zain over Bajrang.  Bajrang wins a lot of matches with his second period pace,  which shouldn't be an issue for Zain, and his defense isn't great.

I think Zain is a bad matchup for Bajrang, and if Otoguru does have gas tank issues, perhaps him as well.

The more I think about it, the more I think Zain's pace could potentially win him a medal.

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On 9/2/2019 at 7:16 PM, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

You are the one coming off as an idiot, first it’s Yianni is going to win Yianni is the best and you try to attack those that had Zain the entire time. But you are right it’s been back and forth with Zain winning every match with a world team spot on the line. 

Im pretty sure the guy that said Yianni won't have a shot at worlds for a few years, despite the matches going back and forth, and despite Yianni actually winning international tournaments, is the one coming off as an idiot. I dont think I've said Yianni would win. I thought he would, but that was more do to the match up at dogu, and yianni actually winning tournaments.  Zain has not done enough for anyone to think Yianni cant win the spot next year, but you said Yiannis gonna have to wait a few years. Quit letting your bias get in the way, either wrestler can beat eachother on any givin day. That has been proven.

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18 hours ago, whaletail said:

I view Otoguru as a huge threat, with possible gas tank issues that Zain could exploit, but I might actually favor Zain over Bajrang.  Bajrang wins a lot of matches with his second period pace,  which shouldn't be an issue for Zain, and his defense isn't great.

I think Zain is a bad matchup for Bajrang, and if Otoguru does have gas tank issues, perhaps him as well.

The more I think about it, the more I think Zain's pace could potentially win him a medal.

I absolutely agree, but I am giving Bajrang the benefit that his tank is more internationally proven.

Otoguru is the only one I believe could potentially jump up too much for Zain to fight back.

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I think I posted this before the matches, but maybe not. Anyway, I think the way this all played out was the best case scenario as a whole.  

The arbitration brought to light a big flaw in the challenge system.  Hopefully correcting and clarifying it to some extent. Yianni got his chance removing any argument that he got screwed out of being the world team rep due to incorrect rule applications. Zain , won match 2 anyway making the world team removing any argument that he was screwed by the arbitration.  For Al the chaos in this it ended up working out well on all accounts really. 

And for the record, I do think Zain has as good of a shot at medaliing as anyone on the team that isn't a returning world champ at one time. 

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