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Jimmy Cinnabon

Does PDIII have to qualify 86kg for the Olympics?

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If PDIII wrestles for a bronze medal at WC's, the weight is qualified.  If not, then the Pan Am Qualifier in March is held for USA to have a chance to qualify again.  Top 2 qualify.  It could be PDIII or Taylor or someone else that goes to that tourney if PDIII does not fight for a bronze or gold at the WC's. 

mspart

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So is this a true statement:  If Downey gets knocked our early, we are rooting for Torreblanca to get top 6, because if that happens, then the Cuban will qualify the weight for his country, so he won't be at the Pan Am Qualifier, so it should be  easy to qualify the weight there?

 

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Well hopefully PD3 qualifies the weight, and that will be the end of it. But if he doesn't, my question is who will we use to go to the Olympic qualifiers? ( Pan Am's and then World's ), Will it be PD3, since he is our current number 1, or will David Taylor go? Or will there be some decision made, or will there be a wrestle off between PD3 and DT beforehand? 

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6 hours ago, mspart said:

Not if the weight is not qualified for the Olympics.  If that is the case, he would be qualified for the WTT's.

mspart

You do not have to qualify the weight chameleon pics to qualify for the Olympic trials. Here is a piece from the guidelines:

2017, 2018 or 2019 USA World Championships Participant and Final World TeamTrials Champion 
 
Any 2017, 2018 or 2019 Senior Freestyle USA World Championships participant and/or  Final World Team Trials Champion is automatically qualified to enter the 2020 U.S.  Olympic Team Trials – Wrestling. 

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PD III won't make it to the hair salon let alone qualify the Olympic spot.

This is our weakest weight at Worlds by a mile. 

The US team needs Taylor to return ASAP. 

Everyone who follows the sport knows that, including even Downey if he is being honest.

 

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It wasn't so clear in the above posts. The below table shows the qualification spots for the Olympics at 86kg (and every other weight for that matter). Sadly, we lost 3 athletes per weight from the past couple olympics and there is only one last-chance world qualifier yielding 2 qualifiers for the Olympics, compared to two events yielding 5 qualifiers in the past. That means we REALLY want to get the job done at Worlds or the Pan Am qualifier.

489754945_ScreenShot2019-09-06at4_47_34AM.png.979f154ad5afda52020641b76d0d3113.png

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4 hours ago, de4856 said:

Well hopefully PD3 qualifies the weight, and that will be the end of it. But if he doesn't, my question is who will we use to go to the Olympic qualifiers? ( Pan Am's and then World's ), Will it be PD3, since he is our current number 1, or will David Taylor go? Or will there be some decision made, or will there be a wrestle off between PD3 and DT beforehand? 

It's not until the spring, so I'm sure they'll send DT if he's ready.

14 hours ago, rpm002 said:

So is this a true statement:  If Downey gets knocked our early, we are rooting for Torreblanca to get top 6, because if that happens, then the Cuban will qualify the weight for his country, so he won't be at the Pan Am Qualifier, so it should be  easy to qualify the weight there?

 

For sure. But it's the deepest Pan Am weight, so getting any of Torreblanca, Ceballos of Venezuela, and Espinal of Puerto Rico through makes us breathe a little easier when it's unclear who would qualify the weight at Pan Am's if DT isn't ready yet. Even Ambrocio of Peru and Izquierdo of Colombia are very solid if we're talking about landmines for a second-tier replacement. It's the worst freestyle weight possible for us to be having this injury issue.

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9 hours ago, maligned said:

It wasn't so clear in the above posts. The below table shows the qualification spots for the Olympics at 86kg (and every other weight for that matter). Sadly, we lost 3 athletes per weight from the past couple olympics and there is only one last-chance world qualifier yielding 2 qualifiers for the Olympics, compared to two events yielding 5 qualifiers in the past. That means we REALLY want to get the job done at Worlds or the Pan Am qualifier.

489754945_ScreenShot2019-09-06at4_47_34AM.png.979f154ad5afda52020641b76d0d3113.png

They should increase the amount of qualifiers.  It should be 24.  

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7 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

They should increase the amount of qualifiers.  It should be 24.  

If they added that many competitors, we could instead add 2 weight classes AND have 18 per class. But yeah, the 16 number is obviously horrible considering 19 was already horrible.

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19 hours ago, mspart said:

Not if the weight is not qualified for the Olympics.  If that is the case, he would be qualified for the WTT's.

mspart

Not true, if the weight is not yet qualified, the selection will still be held for that weight (OTT) with the winner of the OTT going to the last chance qualifier later on.  (Like Cox in '16 for example).

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12 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

You do not have to qualify the weight chameleon pics to qualify for the Olympic trials. Here is a piece from the guidelines:

2017, 2018 or 2019 USA World Championships Participant and Final World TeamTrials Champion 
 
Any 2017, 2018 or 2019 Senior Freestyle USA World Championships participant and/or  Final World Team Trials Champion is automatically qualified to enter the 2020 U.S.  Olympic Team Trials – Wrestling. 

 

My point was that if the weight is not qualified for the Olympics, there is no true Olympic Trial held for that weight.  It would be a World Team Trial if UWW is holding a WC like the last cycle. 

mspart

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6 minutes ago, mspart said:

 

My point was that if the weight is not qualified for the Olympics, there is no true Olympic Trial held for that weight.  It would be a World Team Trial if UWW is holding a WC like the last cycle. 

mspart

There won't be a world championships at 86KG either, so there won't be a world team member at that weight in 2020.  National team trials?

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14 minutes ago, mspart said:

 

My point was that if the weight is not qualified for the Olympics, there is no true Olympic Trial held for that weight.  It would be a World Team Trial if UWW is holding a WC like the last cycle. 

mspart

Okay I see what you're saying. The Olympic trials are set and that's how the member will be determined. As far as what happens if the weight is not qualified I didn't look into it that deep. I'll see if I can figure that out here in a minute.

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15 hours ago, dmm53 said:

PD III won't make it to the hair salon let alone qualify the Olympic spot.

This is our weakest weight at Worlds by a mile. 

The US team needs Taylor to return ASAP. 

Everyone who follows the sport knows that, including even Downey if he is being honest.

 

I don't believe it is our weakest weight.  I believe Graff as well can go 0-1 and be out just as quickly as Downey can.  Graff has great offense going for him, but Downey has more going for him.

Ergo...

Downey is not our weakest competitor nor is he our least proven on the international stage.

Graff is.  Graff is just in a non-Oly weight the last year of the cycle.

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4 hours ago, maligned said:

If they added that many competitors, we could instead add 2 weight classes AND have 18 per class. But yeah, the 16 number is obviously horrible considering 19 was already horrible.

More nations participating grows the sport.  I don't see how that's a problem.  

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On 9/6/2019 at 4:50 AM, maligned said:

It wasn't so clear in the above posts. The below table shows the qualification spots for the Olympics at 86kg (and every other weight for that matter). Sadly, we lost 3 athletes per weight from the past couple olympics and there is only one last-chance world qualifier yielding 2 qualifiers for the Olympics, compared to two events yielding 5 qualifiers in the past. That means we REALLY want to get the job done at Worlds or the Pan Am qualifier.

489754945_ScreenShot2019-09-06at4_47_34AM.png.979f154ad5afda52020641b76d0d3113.png

I am very confident we qualify 74, 97 and 125. We have a real shot at qualifying 57 and 65. It might just be 86 to worry about, and as long as Taylor is healed up by Pan Ams, we won’t have any issues

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On 9/6/2019 at 5:31 PM, mspart said:

 

My point was that if the weight is not qualified for the Olympics, there is no true Olympic Trial held for that weight.  It would be a World Team Trial if UWW is holding a WC like the last cycle. 

mspart

It is covered in the selection procedures. Each weight is contested at the Olympic trials for the Olympic team birth. If a weight has not yet been qualified, the winner of the OTT goes to the last chance qualifier. If for whatever reason the OTT winner is injured, the #2 will go to try and qualify the weight, but #1 is still in line if okay for the Olympics. 

This was the scenario Cox faced (and molinaro as well) after winning OTT’s in ‘16. And if you remember Molinaro didn’t qualify the weight until there was a doping bust after the fact. If they don’t qualify the weight that’s it. There is not world championship for that weight that year. 

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4 hours ago, Lurker said:

It is covered in the selection procedures. Each weight is contested at the Olympic trials for the Olympic team birth. If a weight has not yet been qualified, the winner of the OTT goes to the last chance qualifier. If for whatever reason the OTT winner is injured, the #2 will go to try and qualify the weight, but #1 is still in line if okay for the Olympics. 

This was the scenario Cox faced (and molinaro as well) after winning OTT’s in ‘16. And if you remember Molinaro didn’t qualify the weight until there was a doping bust after the fact. If they don’t qualify the weight that’s it. There is not world championship for that weight that year. 

We didn't qualify all the Greco and women's weights last cycle.  The athletes that won the trials are not listed in the Olympic Team history on the USAW website. https://www.teamusa.org/usa-wrestling/team-usa/olympic-team-history  So there will be a Olympic Trials champion at unqualified weight, but if that weight isn't qualified after the trials then the winners will not be part of the Olympic Team.  

The winners will not be part of the world team either and are not listed in the world team history - https://www.teamusa.org/usa-wrestling/team-usa/world-team-history.  Although the World Team history is definitely not complete.  They have no team listed in the Olympic years even though there have been women's world championships in these years for a long time and men's non-Olympic weights in 2016.

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1 hour ago, Fishbane said:

We didn't qualify all the Greco and women's weights last cycle.  The athletes that won the trials are not listed in the Olympic Team history on the USAW website. https://www.teamusa.org/usa-wrestling/team-usa/olympic-team-history  So there will be a Olympic Trials champion at unqualified weight, but if that weight isn't qualified after the trials then the winners will not be part of the Olympic Team.  

The winners will not be part of the world team either and are not listed in the world team history - https://www.teamusa.org/usa-wrestling/team-usa/world-team-history.  Although the World Team history is definitely not complete.  They have no team listed in the Olympic years even though there have been women's world championships in these years for a long time and men's non-Olympic weights in 2016.

I’m not saying they are on the olympic team whether they qualify the weight or not, I’m saying the weight will be contested at OTT whether or not it is yet qualified. I thought mspart was saying if the weight hasn’t been qualified it won’t be contested at OTT. Maybe I misunderstood 

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