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fightingsioux

Some Impressions From a Quick Visit To These Forums:

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1. I was told beforehand by a former NCAA champion that I would not like it. He had tried, very low key, and given up. I'm 71, been involved in wrestling for 65 years as a wrestler, parent and coach. Thought I'd give it a try.
 
2. Way too much testosterone-fueled, bully boy bragging, threatening, insulting. Nastiness is the best descriptor. This is endemic on all internet forums, of course, perhaps that wrestling is the topic here only makes it worse.
 
3. A shortage of reasoned, logical, fact-based discussion/argument: arguments are good, they're just an exchange of diverging views, they educate. They don't have to end in punching someone in the face. Literally or in a post. See #2 above.
 
4. The hardest thing for humans to do is admit they are wrong. Many people have never said or heard these words said to them: "I believed this, but after listening to your argument and thinking about it, I see that I was wrong." Again, see #2 above.
 
5. Pet Peeve: Googling does not make you an instant expert on a subject.
 
6. An amazingly small number of posters, relatively speaking. I wonder how many potentially interesting, wrestling-knowledgeable, well-spoken and perceptive posters either quit entirely or just lurk because of the overly aggressive, jump-down-your-throat tone of the boards. It is the forum's loss.
 
7. I realize that I read and posted for a very short time. There seems to me some very old grudges, even hatreds, that clog-up and eventually sidetrack almost every thread of any length. I'm a 10-year member of a stock board with an expert, respected and respectful moderator who stops that kind of crap immediately! Stay on point, be rational, no ad hominem attacks. It's remarkable how quickly the loud-mouth bullies leave the room under those rules.
 
8. I was astounded how many truly elite-level (back in the day) wrestlers post here. In my brief visit, I counted 12,482 high school state champs and 3,723 NCAA AA's. Mind-boggling!
 
9. I don't mean to paint everyone with the same brush. I encountered some very informed, sophisticated posters, able to give and take with affable courtesy. NJDan and irani come to mind, I'm sure there are many others.
 
10. In closing, it's not a great experience for a newcomer and not something I'll recommend. That's really too bad, because when all is said and done we all love the sport of wrestling and a fair, thoughtful, civilized meeting place for the exchange of information and opinions (even strong and passionate ones) would be great.
Edited by fightingsioux

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First off you should post this under the thread Willie posted 1-2 weeks ago named “Top 5” I believe.

Could not agree more. I lurked for a long time before I started posting a few months ago. In my opinion the overall value of this forum is decimated by no more than 10 posters. BY FAR the worst are the total bully, smart-a*s, know it all keyboard warriors who seem to only be here so they can jump down the throats of well meaning strangers with no repercussions. Just so they can prove they know more or just feel good about themselves. The rest are much less damaging: spammers and overly sensitive fans of certain programs or wrestlers who turn everything into a perceived slight.

There is a great community of well informed wrestling fans who are here for the right reasons, but as you said they seem to be increasingly drown out by a vocal minority of anonymous wanna-be bullies who ruin things for the rest. The 80/20 rule in business, where 20% of the people add 80% or the value, is true but in reverse and to an even bigger extreme: maybe 1-2% of the posters do 90% of the damage to this forum. 

In my opinion either the moderator needs to get more active in getting rid of the smarta*s bullies or they need to make it easier for everyone else to block or ignore certain posters (at least on the mobile version...which is the only way I post). There’s still a lot of value to this forum but it could be so much more. Not giving up yet but also don’t think I’d recommend to anyone else right now. Maybe that’ll change once the NCAA season kicks off and the hibernaters come back...then again maybe that’ll just make it worse.

 

 

Edited by MDogg

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2 hours ago, fightingsioux said:
1. I was told beforehand by a former NCAA champion that I would not like it. He had tried, very low key, and given up. I'm 71, been involved in wrestling for 65 years as a wrestler, parent and coach. Thought I'd give it a try.
 
2. Way too much testosterone-fueled, bully boy bragging, threatening, insulting. Nastiness is the best descriptor. This is endemic on all internet forums, of course, perhaps that wrestling is the topic here only makes it worse.
 
3. A shortage of reasoned, logical, fact-based discussion/argument: arguments are good, they're just an exchange of diverging views, they educate. They don't have to end in punching someone in the face. Literally or in a post. See #2 above.
 
4. The hardest thing for humans to do is admit they are wrong. Many people have never said or heard these words said to them: "I believed this, but after listening to your argument and thinking about it, I see that I was wrong." Again, see #2 above.
 
5. Pet Peeve: Googling does not make you an instant expert on a subject.
 
6. An amazingly small number of posters, relatively speaking. I wonder how many potentially interesting, wrestling-knowledgeable, well-spoken and perceptive posters either quit entirely or just lurk because of the overly aggressive, jump-down-your-throat tone of the boards. It is the forum's loss.
 
7. I realize that I read and posted for a very short time. There seems to me some very old grudges, even hatreds, that clog-up and eventually sidetrack almost every thread of any length. I'm a 10-year member of a stock board with an expert, respected and respectful moderator who stops that kind of crap immediately! Stay on point, be rational, no ad hominem attacks. It's remarkable how quickly the loud-mouth bullies leave the room under those rules.
 
8. I was astounded how many truly elite-level (back in the day) wrestlers post here. In my brief visit, I counted 12,482 high school state champs and 3,723 NCAA AA's. Mind-boggling!
 
9. I don't mean to paint everyone with the same brush. I encountered some very informed, sophisticated posters, able to give and take with affable courtesy. NJDan and irani come to mind, I'm sure there are many others.
 
10. In closing, it's not a great experience for a newcomer and not something I'll recommend. That's really too bad, because when all is said and done we all love the sport of wrestling and a fair, thoughtful, civilized meeting place for the exchange of information and opinions (even strong and passionate ones) would be great.

 

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Fightingsioux - amen.  Thanks for this post.  I hope it will make a difference.  

But I think some people, deep down, get a feeling of self worth by insulting others.  Makes themselves and their ‘clan’ feel better about themselves.  I think the WSJ has an article on this recently - pretty insightful.

I think Mdogg is directionally right as well — it’s a limited set of folks that are the worst offenders.  

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FightingSioux, did you wrestle at UND? I got my Master's there but it was long after wrestling had left. I find evidence online that it existed as late as 1989, but I can't find the exact year it was dropped. I assume it was in the 90s.

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11 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

This. There are trolls on every forum. It’s not as if any other venue is better. 

I have to agree on this. I come to this international forum because there are about 30 people that post regularly with good knowledge of the sport that discuss meaningful opinions. I just skim past the fighting. There are plenty of articles out there about the psychology behind internet trolls and the fact that their emotional makeup in many cases doesn't allow them to feel much empathy toward other posters. Trying to convince them to be respectful or to stop needling others is unfortunately fairly fruitless. If you can find ways to skim past some of the muck, there are some good discussions and good analysis--especially just before and after big events like we're fortunate enough to have this week. 

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4 hours ago, scribe said:

I got down to the njdan testimonial and now I wait for the op to admit he is wrong. 

Oh, I had not noticed that. Thanks for pointing it out as this was the best part of the OP.  Thanks, FightingSioux!

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15 hours ago, fightingsioux said:

9. I don't mean to paint everyone with the same brush. I encountered some very informed, sophisticated posters, able to give and take with affable courtesy. NJDan and irani come to mind, I'm sure there are many others.

Many thanks for the honorable mention!  I agree with your 1-2% doing 90% of the damage.  So for the most part, I focus on the 98% who help me enjoy discussing international wrestling.

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Amen.  Way too much bullying and ad hominem attacks, the vast majority of which have included me as a target.  Nevertheless, she persisted.

 

Despite my lack of popularity on these forums, I ALWAYS stick to discussing wrestling.  No politics, no religion, no childish squabbles and name calling....  That is more than many revered regulars on this forum can say.

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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42 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

message boards are inherently difficult places to foster quality discussions. the most inflammatory posts get the most engagement and visibility. I'd give twitter a shot, lots of good wrestling chatter on that platform. 

I think OP is looking for serious responses, not batsh#$ insane recommendations.  

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I am one of those who post infrequently, but read quite often as the negativity is not worth it to me.  I do appreciate fightingsioux's analysis. I see this forum, and many others, as the Wild Wild West, akin to something like Deadwood... few rules and not much regulation.  I do enjoy great wrestling banter and conversation, not much of this in day to day life, so I like to come here and see what I can find.  Anything we can do do build positivity around our sport is a good thing.  Good thread and a good reminder. 

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This forum is pretty tame.  I actually wish there were less restrictions like it used to be.  The board is not designed purely for wrestling information.  There is a level of entertainment posts that you cant find in other places.  Lets not take that away because you find some posts crude.

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