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TheWrestlingGonad

why do we suck at greco?

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(1) Training locations and Facilities ?

(2) The number of top tier candidates entering and remaining in Greco ? 

(3) The emphasis of Greco at an early age ?

(4) Coaching ? 

(5) Exposure to other wrestlers and programs around the world ?

(6) USAW's youth development program for Greco, do we need to make some adjustments ? 

A number of year's ago, I think it was like 2013, we began to have tremendous success at our lower levels in MFS, and I know Coach Slay was part of the development program, ( and I think it might have been Coach Zadick as well but I am not really sure ), but since then, We have had quite a bit of success on the Senior level in Freestyle. Now I know that some may say that well we became successful because of the individuals, like Kyle Snyder or an Aaron Pico to name a few, but others may also say it was because of the development that they went through, I believe it has to be some of both. Now my memory might not be the best here, but wasn't it until Henry Cejudo went to the OTC that he developed into the great wrestler he is today? Now I am not in Colorado, and I have no actually have no idea about what we already have in place and who is currently on the staff for youth development in Greco, and for that matter what else we have going on around the country, but perhaps the brains behind USA Wrestling needs to examine things and possibly add some additional resources, or how things are being done, or both.

Looking back at this year's results in Greco, I don't believe we had much success at the Cadet World's and I believe that we had moderate to pretty good success at Juniors with a Bronze medals for Nutter, and Omania, and a Silver for Schultz. ( I think we had a couple guys take 5th as well), But just like anything in this world it all may come down to funding, how much do we have, what are our priorities, and can we accumulate more. 

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Well, we know Adam Coon is capable of going both Greco and Freestyle at the highest level, but after reading what some of the other posters were saying, it got me thinking, who else might be capable of doing both styles and or switching, a few people have mentioned Kyle Dake, and even though I don't know how much Greco experience he has, I do think that if anyone on our MFS could do it and be successful it would be him. Now why do I say that, I personally just think it his brains and attitude, he has the "it" factor.

Now in the past we have had some great Greco guys, like our head coach Matt Lindland, Oly Silver and a World Silver, Dennis Hall, World Champ, Oly Silver, and a World Bronze, Andrew Bisek, 2x World Bronze Justin Lester 2x World Bronze, Rulon Gardner a World and Oly Champ, and a Oly Bronze, and of course they're others, but these are the ones that come to mind as I text this and I don't mean to slight anyone. But the point is, our training methods, and preperation has to be better than when these guys were wrestling, so what gives? Why were these guys successful, what did they do to get themselves over the hump? 

As I watched the Greco matches over the last few nights, I saw moments were we looked good, and I saw other moments where some little things were turned into bigger things that cost us. So, I just don't know what the answer is, I guess we have to pick the the broken pieces, and try and put in all back together and try and figure out some way to improve. 

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3 hours ago, Underhook said:

How many people in this thread would support dropping Greco from the olympics if it meant all men’s and women’s freestyle weights would be included in the olympics? 

Hell yes!

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Ben Provisor won Pan Am Freestyle, but took 3rd or 4th in Greco. Provisor had not wrestled folk style or freestyle for 7-8 years.... just saying. 

The issue is we are 10 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to focusing on Greco. We as a national team keep trying to catch them from a technical standpoint when that is impossible... The USA wrestlers eventually may learn the technique, but the unconscious feel and innate ability to move, adjust, and transition is not there due to being so far behind in the number of years training in it. We have to develop strengths where we can actually be stronger instead of trying to beat them at their game. Gable (yes it was freestyle)  knew how to beat them by having far better conditioning and wrestling with a non-stop in your face style of constant pressure and attacking their position to set up scoring. Work on developing and improving in our areas of weakness that are exploited by them    (par tere bottom) to minimize the gap, and wrestle our matches our way. We all know how to shoot, so more level changes, pulls etc. to high dives, slide by... etc. and start to f-ing  brawl. Hire recently “retired” top level guys as our assistant coaches. 

Edited by bman546

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I think that coaching has a lot to do with our lack of success. I think that the athletes train hard and I believe that the coaches work hard as well. I just personally feel that our coaches are not well versed in the nuances of year round preparation for the sport. Getting the athletes overseas for training opportunities and competition is great. The coaches going with them for these opportunities is great as well. But we just get a small snapshot of what training is like overseas. I think that some of our coaches need to go spend an extended period of time in a full time greco training environment. Much like Hrovat did when he went to Russia to train freestyle with them. Blaming our folkstyle system is a small a part of the equation. However, we have won a greco roman team title in the past. So this is not the only problem. I want it to be clear that I am not bashing the coaches. I think that they work hard and do the best that they can. Just like our athletes. I just think that they somehow need to be better educated. We always have good wins during the season, but somehow these do not translate into wins at the major events (worlds, olympics). Just my personal opinion.

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Two things. The first deal directly and solely with us. We spend (at best) half as much time in our wrestling lives on Greco as those we have to beat to climb the ladder. That’s just never going to get it done. The second thing impacts the rest of the world: the combination of the break up of Soviet Union and this era of wrestling free agency that allows the second and third team Russian to compete for, not just a former soviet state, but Bahrain and Hungary, etc etc. 

Did you know: 8 athletes from Dagestan won medals in Rio. One of those eight represented Russia....

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48 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Did you know: 8 athletes from Dagestan won medals in Rio. One of those eight represented Russia....

Who are the 8 Dagestanis? I only count 5. Sadulaev RUS, Sharifov AZE, Ibragimov UZB, Saidov BLR & Hamzatov BLR.

Also 2 Ossetians (Ramanov RUS & Gozyumov AZE), 1 Ingushetian (Yashar TUR), 1 Kabardino (Geduev RUS), 1 Chechen (Saritov ROU).

I made some maps about the Rio Medalists a while ago, you can check it out here

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18 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Who are the 8 Dagestanis? I only count 5. Sadulaev RUS, Sharifov AZE, Ibragimov UZB, Saidov BLR & Hamzatov BLR.

Also 2 Ossetians (Ramanov RUS & Gozyumov AZE), 1 Ingushetian (Yashar TUR), 1 Kabardino (Geduev RUS), 1 Chechen (Saritov ROU).

I made some maps about the Rio Medalists a while ago, you can check it out here

I included two athletes from taekwondo and judo in that. I cannot remember the names of the six wrestlers. I got it out of a Russian article awhile back

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