Is Zain becoming Metcalf 2.0?

[Husker_Du 838]

3 hours ago, CA_Wrestler said:

You are correct, Zain lost to Pico for the Jr World team spot 2 years in a row.

and Tsirtsis as a first year JR (year after Cadet Gold)

zain lost in jr trials finals 3 straight years. 

[CA_Wrestler 316]

2 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

and Tsirtsis as a first year JR (year after Cadet Gold)

zain lost in jr trials finals 3 straight years. 

Don't make the PSU faithful cry like that!

[scribe 1,824]

4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Too soon.

Too soon. The wound is fresh 

The body is still warm. 

[scramble 155]

I thought Zain wrestle pretty well.  He got taken down and gutted right off the bat.  After that he controlled the match pretty well.  If he can make adjustments to that chest wrap then he wins that match pretty handily.  Those 2-2 got him.  The one thing I thought was interesting was that last score as he hooked the the leg trying to finish he got elevated and rolled through.  If I remember it went 2-1 on the score.  Zain just needs some more matches where he can get that feel more in my opinion.  He initiated a lot of action and was able to finish pretty consistent.  

I also don't completely get the Metcalf think.  I understand why people say it, but I just don't think they are the same.  Yes they both go hard and come at you with more traditional type attacks and a high motor. However, the thing that seemed to get Metcalf was that he didn't really ever back of the throttle.  So he would lose crucial matches at times because he would keep going full throttle when he was in the lead losing matches at the end due to his attacks. It allowed his opponents to counter. Zain is on the throttle but that is when its early  or he is trying to take a lead. I don't know that I see him "cost himself" matches from not idling his motor down and being more strategic at the end.  I fully believe that of Zain were ahead in that match, or any other match, his match strategy and attack strategy would adjust.  Metcalf sometimes wouldn't do that when he needed to. Last, Zain doesn't just push and pull.  He fired off quite a few shots.  I don't see him just pushing and pulling.  He also level changes and fakes quite a bit to get guys off balance. 

[alliseeisgold 94]

yes it is metcalf all over again. Zain is a damn GAMER .....((domestically))...........internationally, eh not so much

Against yanni zain was free, loose, flowing, focused aggression, and last night he comes out stiff, timid ,stiff, conservative -- and did you see how weak his closing charge was to score with over a minute left.  It wasn't the same zain. I bought the coolaid that it would be and yanni prep would help him. I was wrong. There is a reason some countries use tournaments to send the best guy than just wrestleoff. 

Yanni is an international gamer. Zain is a domestic gamer

The cuban had nothing else besides upper body and defense.  Zain also got the benefit of multiple calls. It actually wasn't as close as the scoreboard. It was more zain's deficiencies than the opponent being so great. Yes, I think yanni beats the cuban.

 

 

[madcat11 434]

I think people forget how dominant Metcalf was in folk.  Or maybe they don’t.

 

Wasn't he also a 3 loss career?  Caldwell x2 and Palmer?

[MDogg 273]

1 hour ago, madcat11 said:

I think people forget how dominant Metcalf was in folk.  Or maybe they don’t.

 

Wasn't he also a 3 loss career?  Caldwell x2 and Palmer?

Zain had a 4 loss career...all his true freshman year and 3 of them to Logan Stieber. Only loss in the NCAA tournament was to a 4x ncaa champ his true freshman year. In my opinion he has the most impressive ncaa tournament resume of all the 3x champs. 

UPDATE: my bad...I thought his loss to Port (his only loss in his NCAA career to a non 4x champ) was at Big Tens. I’d now say Snyder and also Cox have more impressive NCAA tournament resumes.

Edited September 19, 2019 by MDogg

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,117]

2 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Zain had a 4 loss career...all his true freshman year and 3 of them to Logan Stieber. Only loss in the NCAA tournament was to a 4x ncaa champ his true freshman year. In my opinion he has hands down the most impressive ncaa tournament resume of all the 3x champs. 

Zain took 5th his freshman year.  Also lost to Port in the consi semis.  

[jon 158]

8 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Zain had a 4 loss career...all his true freshman year and 3 of them to Logan Stieber. Only loss in the NCAA tournament was to a 4x ncaa champ his true freshman year. In my opinion he has hands down the most impressive ncaa tournament resume of all the 3x champs. 

Snyder's NCAA-tournament results hard to beat! 2-1-1-1 record. No redshirt! Late starts/lite schedule during some years.

Edited September 19, 2019 by jon

[headache 149]

7 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Zain had a 4 loss career...all his true freshman year and 3 of them to Logan Stieber. Only loss in the NCAA tournament was to a 4x ncaa champ his true freshman year. In my opinion he has hands down the most impressive ncaa tournament resume of all the 3x champs. 

He lost to Port too.

[Perry 1,423]

Lol zain's not even in the ballpark of snyder as best 3x champ ever... snyder was a world and olympic champ before he was done with college and stopped gwiz from being a 3x champ as well bumping up. Zain hasnt won more than a single match at world championships to date. Light years apart.

[IronChef 1,074]

Zain has two losses at the world championships. One is to a two-time medalist and one is to the current top seed (and 2018 silver medalist) at 70kg. Let's not write him off just yet.

[hammerlockthree 2,582]

Their styles do come off as similarly....simplistic for senior level. 

[Plasmodium 2,224]

Disappointing finish for him and Fix.  Disappointing start for team USA.

[MDogg 273]

32 minutes ago, Perry said:

Lol zain's not even in the ballpark of snyder as best 3x champ ever... snyder was a world and olympic champ before he was done with college and stopped gwiz from being a 3x champ as well bumping up. Zain hasnt won more than a single match at world championships to date. Light years apart.

I said best NCAA tournament resume ever (which I’ve since updated and changed based on the fact I messed up his freshman year big ten and ncaa tournaments). HUGE difference. I never said he was the best 3x champ ever and honestly don’t even think he’s in the conversation.

Either way I still stand corrected on what I did say.

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,117]

25 minutes ago, MDogg said:

I said best NCAA tournament resume ever (which I’ve since updated and changed based on the fact I messed up his freshman year big ten and ncaa tournaments). HUGE difference. I never said he was the best 3x champ ever and honestly don’t even think he’s in the conversation.

Either way I still stand corrected on what I did say.

I'm not quite understanding your criteria.  Ruth, Nickal, and Nolf all lost only once at NCAA's and scored more team points than Zain.  Ed Banach and Churella are in that group, too.  

[MDogg 273]

2 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I'm not quite understanding your criteria.  Ruth, Nickal, and Nolf all lost only once at NCAA's and scored more team points than Zain.  Ed Banach and Churella are in that group, too.  

See the update to my original post

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,117]

3 minutes ago, MDogg said:

See the update to my original post

I know, I saw that. I still don't understand what your criteria is.  Are you now going with least number of losses while not taking a redshirt? 

Your updated post seemingly suggests Zain is #3 among 3 timers after Snyder and Cox.  What I was saying is that Ruth, Nickal, Nolf, Banach, and Churella could all be considered to have had objectively better career NCAA tournament resumes based on both # of losses, and total team points.  

 

[Husker_Du 838]

2 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

yes it is metcalf all over again. Zain is a damn GAMER .....((domestically))...........internationally, eh not so much

Against yanni zain was free, loose, flowing, focused aggression, and last night he comes out stiff, timid ,stiff, conservative -- and did you see how weak his closing charge was to score with over a minute left.  It wasn't the same zain. I bought the coolaid that it would be and yanni prep would help him. I was wrong. There is a reason some countries use tournaments to send the best guy than just wrestleoff. 

Yanni is an international gamer. Zain is a domestic gamer

The cuban had nothing else besides upper body and defense.  Zain also got the benefit of multiple calls. It actually wasn't as close as the scoreboard. It was more zain's deficiencies than the opponent being so great. Yes, I think yanni beats the cuban.

 

 

were you watching the same match i was? 

[nhs67 1,980]

17 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

were you watching the same match i was? 

No. No he was not.

[PSUMike 445]

2 hours ago, MDogg said:

Zain had a 4 loss career...all his true freshman year and 3 of them to Logan Stieber. Only loss in the NCAA tournament was to a 4x ncaa champ his true freshman year. In my opinion he has the most impressive ncaa tournament resume of all the 3x champs. 

UPDATE: my bad...I thought his loss to Port (his only loss in his NCAA career to a non 4x champ) was at Big Tens. I’d now say Snyder and also Cox have more impressive NCAA tournament resumes.

Zain had 3 losses. Beat Steiber in the dual but lost to him at B1Gs and NCAAs. Lost to Port in the consi semis. 

[BTC 107]

8 hours ago, Dr. Novak said:

Makes you wonder about Diakomihalis too.  

Not really honestly. Hes a true junior this year. Zain is two years removed from college. Yianni has time on his side.

[2td3nf 582]

I know they all weighed in at the same weight, but gee whiz, sure looked like Tobier was bigger and stronger than Zain. That reminded me of Metcalf and Taghavi - always thought Taghavi looked bigger and stronger than Brent. Again, could be wrong here, they all weighed in the same and might be deceiving through the computer screen.

Bigger or stronger whatever, just gotta love Tobier's technique. His first takedown was beautiful, right into a killer gut for more easy points. So fluid. How about his slick counter to Zain's td attempt at the end that sealed it. Freestylin'

 

[Jon_Kozak 300]

11 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Were Metcalfs brackets as brutal as this one? I didn’t follow that closely back then.

Metcalf's losses at Worlds

In 2015 - Mohammadi from Iran in third round...2 time world medalist (bronze and silver). Mohammadi went on to lose to Chamizo 2-2 in semis.
In 2014 - Kaya from Turkey in the second round...this year's Euro champ and couple time 5th placer. Kaya went on to lose to Mohammadi in semis.
In 2013 - Taghavi from Iran in the first round...2 time world Champ
In 2010 - Tushisvili from Georgia in the first round...4 time world medalist (1 olympic bronze, 1 world silver, 2 world bronze)

[Pennsy Kraken 21]

Let's not insult Snyder by comparing Zane's freestyle results to him. Zane has great top game which has almost zero value in freestyle. He got his doors blown in by that Cuban. The score was in no way indicative of the result