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What happened in the Aliyev/Rashidov March?

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There are a few posts about it in another thread but here's a quick synopsis. Aliyev is down 2-3 with less than 0:15 on the clock. He gets to a low single, Rashidov tries to kick out, and Aliyev gets rear standing, just barely missing getting 2 because Rashidov's knee was up when he finally got behind. Aliyev is trying to bring Rashidov down, the action moves to the edge, Rashidov tries to bail out with something like a standing Peterson and gets planted on his back out of bounds. The call on the mat is 2 for Aliyev final score 4-3. Rashidov challenges and the call gets changed to 1 red seemingly because Aliyev stepped out while stopping Rashidov's standing reversal attempt. It seems that the Jury felt that Aliyev stepped out "while under attack" because of Rashidov's attempted reversal. 

In my mind, Rashidov was under attack because Aliyev initiated the sequence that brought them to the edge and Rashidov was countering trying to bail out of the situation. Aliyev was attacking therefore he can't give up a stepout. 

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the step out applies regardless of the offensive or defensive wrestler... you step out you give up a point...

what the offensive wrestler can do is step out while in the process of a throw and not be penalized... you can not step out and then launch off the foot that is out of bounds, but, if the throw is being attempted and the the second foot steps out in the process, then the offensive wrestler will not be penalized...

but if he just steps out first while on the edge then of course the offensive wrestler will be hit with the step out point...

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15 minutes ago, LJB said:

the step out applies regardless of the offensive or defensive wrestler... you step out you give up a point...

what the offensive wrestler can do is step out while in the process of a throw and not be penalized

You have to step out (paraphrasing here) under attack from a wrestling move in order to give up a point. You are correct that if you are the offensive wrestler initiating an attack then you do not give up a point. 

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6 minutes ago, LJB said:

incorrect

I really don't want to be doing my job right now so here are excerpts from the rule book relating to step outs and whether the offensive/defensive wrestlers earns points. You're right that the rules do not literally say "under attack from a wrestling move." I paraphrased that to summarize the key points that 1) its if your opponents whole foot goes out when he is not attacking, 2) that the offensive wrestler can step out on continuation, and 3) that you need create "meaningful action" to score the point. 

1 point will be awarded...

"To the wrestler whose opponent goes in the protection zone with one entire foot (in standing position) without executing a hold"

Clarification

"When the attacking wrestler is the first to step into the protection area in the commission of a hold, the following may occur... If the wrestler completes the hold successfully in a continuous action, he shall be awarded the requisite points--1, 2, 4 or 5 points."

Note

"When a wrestler deliberately pushes his opponent into the protection area with no meaningful action, he shall no longer be awarded 1 point."

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all of that i am good with...

the offensive wrestler can not straight arm push the defensive wrestler out of bounds... but if the defensive wrestler refuses to hold ground and steps out going backward he will get hit with the step out point regardless of what the offensive wrestler is doing... if it is egregious enough he will get hit with a caution and 1 for fleeing... we just rarely see the scenario because most wrestlers don't pull a folk and actually try to wrestle, but, if they are circling out and step out they will get hit...

if the offensive wrestler steps out first and is not in a throwing maneuver he will most definitely get hit with a step out point...

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51 minutes ago, LJB said:

 

if the offensive wrestler steps out first and is not in a throwing maneuver he will most definitely get hit with a step out point...

It doesn't have to be a throw. Attacking frequently step out while executing leg attacks like singles and doubles without giving up a step out. 

Edited by GranbyTroll

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if they drive them off the mat and complete the takedown, then yes... it is called continuation and it is a point of emphasis... if the takedown is not completed and the attacking wrestler steps out first then they will get hit with the step out... if on a single and the defending wrestlers circles in and the attacking wrestlers steps out they will most definitely get hit with the step out... 

 

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Man I just watched the last 20 seconds for a couple dozen times and I'm probably going to be the only idiot with this take. To me, as they are moving to the edge, even though Aliyev is the wrestler behind the other guy, it seems to me Rashidov initiated the action causing Haji to land on his back. I've seen it before although it's rarely called. If you're behind the guy in a rear standing position and  both of you are hand fighting and trying to get a better grip or whatever, if the wrestler in front  leaps up into the air causing the rear wrestler to land in danger on his backside, I would think  it would be 4 pts. for the front wrestler so to speak. Am I completely off-base, does the step out negate that possibility or am I just an idiot?

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20 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

Man I just watched the last 20 seconds for a couple dozen times and I'm probably going to be the only idiot with this take. To me, as they are moving to the edge, even though Aliyev is the wrestler behind the other guy, it seems to me Rashidov initiated the action causing Haji to land on his back. I've seen it before although it's rarely called. If you're behind the guy in a rear standing position and  both of you are hand fighting and trying to get a better grip or whatever, if the wrestler in front  leaps up into the air causing the rear wrestler to land in danger on his backside, I would think  it would be 4 pts. for the front wrestler so to speak. Am I completely off-base, does the step out negate that possibility or am I just an idiot?

This is kind of  like what Yianni did to Zain at the international tournament, except not at the edge and not at the last second.

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29 minutes ago, NJDan said:

This is kind of  like what Yianni did to Zain at the international tournament, except not at the edge and not at the last second.

Dan, so am I correct? I don't mean in this sentence but I am referring to if there's 2 guys in a rear standing position hand fighting and it's plainly obvious the front guy leaps into the air and turns and the back guy lands on his backside, is it a 4 for the front guy?

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if you have someone in a rear standing position and you allow them to "jump in the air" in a manner that you could possibly land on your back, you deserve to lose the match automatically right there...

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Yeah I think in the Yianni-Zain and the Kolat-Fisher matchs the jump/roll with a guy on their back both resulted in exposure.  I don't think Rashidov exposed Aliyev on that move.  He tried something, but it seemed more desperation and less controlled than Yianni or Kolat.  It was ruled a 1 point OOB because Aliyev's head landed out of bounds.

For those that didn't see it the sequence is in this video at the 0:22 mark - 

 

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26 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

Dan, so am I correct? I don't mean in this sentence but I am referring to if there's 2 guys in a rear standing position hand fighting and it's plainly obvious the front guy leaps into the air and turns and the back guy lands on his backside, is it a 4 for the front guy?

I would say you are  correct based on these two matches.

But I also think Aliev had a takedown before the throw, which should have  put him in the lead by three.

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30 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

Dan, so am I correct? I don't mean in this sentence but I am referring to if there's 2 guys in a rear standing position hand fighting and it's plainly obvious the front guy leaps into the air and turns and the back guy lands on his backside, is it a 4 for the front guy?

That's not what happened in Aliyev-Rashidov though.  Aliyev did not expose and Rashidov did.  Rashidov did not come out on top in control either.

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