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Freestyle Day Two discussion thread

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1 hour ago, pa in taiwan said:

I'm copying this post I made on the other thread because I'm shocked at the lack of understanding on display about the Fix / Takahashi match. You don't seem to understand what passivity is in freestyle wrestling. The ref put Fix on the shot clock because he was passive, backing away from Takahashi's offensive setups.

Folkstyle folks be like, "Only leg shots are offense." Watch that match again and realize what I'm sure the USA coaches have now realized, which is that wrestlers who want to pull out of a Russian tie or a two-on-one had better find a way to do so without backing or running away. Takahashi works his offense off of a few different two-on-one arm ties. 30 seconds into the match, Takahashi, standing on the center spot of the mat, reaches for the two-on-one twice. Fix backs and then runs away to the outer part of the circle and the official uses his blue hand to make the "move forward and engage" signal. Fix continues to try to escape Takahashi's throw-by set up, a two-on-one on Fix's left arm, and it's clear that ref is going to warn him (5:18). Fix's mistake is that he isn't clearing the two-on-one and transitioning into his own offense. He's moving back into outer space. Imagine a wrestler who works his offense off a collar tie, and every time he locks another wrestler up with a collar tie, that wrestler clears it and backs up instead of looking to attack. Imagine a guy who shoots from space, and instead of re-attacking and generating offense, the other guy keeps backing away. This is essentially what Fix is doing in this match; he's backing away from Takehashi's offensive setups. Watch the whistle start after the first passive warning. Fix starts in a very forward position, over the center of the mat, but as soon as Takahashi goes for the two-on-one, he circles into the orange outer band. The ref immediately puts his blue hand up and encourages him to engage. Do you not understand that this is passivity? Takahashi continues to go for the two-on-one tie on Fix's left arm, and Fix continues to back away, and it's no surprise that the ref puts him on the 30 second clock at 4:31. Watch the entire match with positioning in mind. Takahashi works the middle of the mat the whole time. After the first shot clock point, Fix ties up in a collar tie and makes some effective fakes, causing Takahashi to back away. The ref immediately lifts the red hand and warns Takehashi for passivity. The ref does a good job in this low scoring match of encouraging action. It's a disappointment that a wrestler with the dynamism of Daton Fix was unable to create more action. The takedown and ensuing flurries of action at the beginning of the second period were good signs, and Fix should have continued. When he creates action, he scores more that his opponent. Again, Takehashi continues moving forward, looking for the Russian tie on the left arm. Fix never turns it into HIS offense. At one point he uses his left arm to overhook, a great tactic, as Takehashi doesn't seem able to create action. The ref blows it dead quickly, as noone is attacking. 

Lessons were learned from this match. Daton will be better prepared for his next meeting with Takehashi.  

 

14 minutes ago, LJB said:

 

this guy understands international wrestling...

some of you not so much...

First of all, I do understand international wrestling very well. What you are saying, pa in taiwan, makes total sense if that is what happened for sure. I did not see it that way watching live, but I was watching as a fan, not as ref. I will go back and rewatch the match and I may change my opinion. One thing I want to add is that typically if there is a wrestler who was put on the shot clock in the first period, and then later scored the only takedown, it usually has to be pretty egregious passivity for them to go on the shot clock a second time. Again, it may very well be as bad as you say, but I tend to get a little too excited watching live and will need to watch again without bias. Thanks for your detailed analysis!

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1 hour ago, NJDan said:

Pretty sure he was been wearing the Serbia singlet for a while. I don't think you can go back and forth.

For what it's worth - Micic beat fix in the junior trials back in 15. Micic beat him 2 matches to none after losing in the junior open to Fix. He took bronze at Juniors that year and then transferred to Serbia in 18. His first competition was Euros in May of 18-where he took Bronze. 

He is no longer eligible to transfer back to USA or any other country. Can't blame him for not wanting to go through the stacked field at 57 in USA-Fix, Gilman, Lee, Suriano, Micic, Nahshon, NATO, Vito, etc...

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6 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

For what it's worth - Micic beat fix in the junior trials back in 15. Micic beat him 2 matches to none after losing in the junior open to Fix. He took bronze at Juniors that year and then transferred to Serbia in 18. His first competition was Euros in May of 18-where he took Bronze. 

He is no longer eligible to transfer back to USA or any other country. Can't blame him for not wanting to go through the stacked field at 57 in USA-Fix, Gilman, Lee, Suriano, Micic, Nahshon, NATO, Vito, etc...

Micic also has an NCAA finals appearances and a third place, IIRC. He is legit, to put it mildly.

Edited by NJDan

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1 hour ago, pa in taiwan said:

I'm copying this post I made on the other thread because I'm shocked at the lack of understanding on display about the Fix / Takahashi match. You don't seem to understand what passivity is in freestyle wrestling. The ref put Fix on the shot clock because he was passive, backing away from Takahashi's offensive setups.

Folkstyle folks be like, "Only leg shots are offense." Watch that match again and realize what I'm sure the USA coaches have now realized, which is that wrestlers who want to pull out of a Russian tie or a two-on-one had better find a way to do so without backing or running away. Takahashi works his offense off of a few different two-on-one arm ties. 30 seconds into the match, Takahashi, standing on the center spot of the mat, reaches for the two-on-one twice. Fix backs and then runs away to the outer part of the circle and the official uses his blue hand to make the "move forward and engage" signal. Fix continues to try to escape Takahashi's throw-by set up, a two-on-one on Fix's left arm, and it's clear that ref is going to warn him (5:18). Fix's mistake is that he isn't clearing the two-on-one and transitioning into his own offense. He's moving back into outer space. Imagine a wrestler who works his offense off a collar tie, and every time he locks another wrestler up with a collar tie, that wrestler clears it and backs up instead of looking to attack. Imagine a guy who shoots from space, and instead of re-attacking and generating offense, the other guy keeps backing away. This is essentially what Fix is doing in this match; he's backing away from Takehashi's offensive setups. Watch the whistle start after the first passive warning. Fix starts in a very forward position, over the center of the mat, but as soon as Takahashi goes for the two-on-one, he circles into the orange outer band. The ref immediately puts his blue hand up and encourages him to engage. Do you not understand that this is passivity? Takahashi continues to go for the two-on-one tie on Fix's left arm, and Fix continues to back away, and it's no surprise that the ref puts him on the 30 second clock at 4:31. Watch the entire match with positioning in mind. Takahashi works the middle of the mat the whole time. After the first shot clock point, Fix ties up in a collar tie and makes some effective fakes, causing Takahashi to back away. The ref immediately lifts the red hand and warns Takehashi for passivity. The ref does a good job in this low scoring match of encouraging action. It's a disappointment that a wrestler with the dynamism of Daton Fix was unable to create more action. The takedown and ensuing flurries of action at the beginning of the second period were good signs, and Fix should have continued. When he creates action, he scores more that his opponent. Again, Takehashi continues moving forward, looking for the Russian tie on the left arm. Fix never turns it into HIS offense. At one point he uses his left arm to overhook, a great tactic, as Takehashi doesn't seem able to create action. The ref blows it dead quickly, as noone is attacking. 

Lessons were learned from this match. Daton will be better prepared for his next meeting with Takehashi.  

Very much this....I often find my self explaining to people that constantly attacking is not completely equal to constantly taking shots.  Attacking the positions is offensive wrestling.  And you have to attack the positioning first (minus the blast double from space)

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54 minutes ago, justafan said:

Yes 

Thanks for info. Between the two oly redshirts and the regular redshirt, Micic will be nearly 25 years old in his final NCAA season. 

Edited by dps831

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4 minutes ago, dps831 said:

Thanks for info. Between the two oly redshirts and the regular redshirt, Micic will be nearly 25 years old in his final NCAA season. 

It's almost like a 14yr old HS freshman wrestling a 19yr old HS Senior?

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34 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

So how about Russia having 4 finalists at the first 5 weights and already 2 champs...and their 61 is one of a few favorites.

Russia 2 Champs both by tech. Tomorrow they've 2 going for Gold and 1 for Bronze.They had 1 guy eliminated at 125kg.Plus have Idrisov and Sadulaev still to come .

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3 minutes ago, justafan said:

Russia 2 Champs both by tech. Tomorrow they've 2 going for Gold and 1 for Bronze.They had 1 guy eliminated at 125kg.Plus have Idrisov and Sadulaev still to come .

What's even more remarkable is this is par for the course for Russia. Since 2008-half of their world reps have wrestled for a GOLD MEDAL. 42 of 84-with 31 winning gold. 

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Just now, Jon_Kozak said:

What's even more remarkable is this is par for the course for Russia. Since 2008-half of their world reps have wrestled for a GOLD MEDAL. 42 of 84-with 31 winning gold. 

I know and all we do in the USA is complain about the draws and all they do is keep winning

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3 minutes ago, justafan said:

I know and all we do in the USA is complain about the draws and all they do is keep winning

In America we find someone to blame, in Dagestan and the Caucuses they find a way to get it done.  Pretty much current culture

Edited by Lurker

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