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NJDan

Michigan at Worlds

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1 minute ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I’m sure he knew the politics before he signed up to wrestle for them, imo he sold his soul to wrestle at the worlds level and it bit him in the but. So now we’re supposed to feel bad for him?

Sold his soul? Are you dense? He has a $HlT tonne of family in Lebanon. He has been a dual citizen since before CKWC got their hands on him. Same with the Amines.

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1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

Sold his soul? Are you dense? He has a $HlT tonne of family in Lebanon. He has been a dual citizen since before CKWC got their hands on him. Same with the Amines.

So then I’m sure he knew the political view of the country he is so familiar with. Now he’s upset that it has blown up in his face. So his ignorance is your argument? 

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2 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

So then I’m sure he knew the political view of the country he is so familiar with. Now he’s upset that it has blown up in his face. So his ignorance is your argument? 

Fair point.

That being said he had no control over the politix nor where his lineage is from.

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19 hours ago, whaletail said:

BTW, anyone else shocked that Malik Amine probably placed higher at worlds than at any of his NCAA tournaments?

He had a good draw, but yes I was a little surprised that he won more matches at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS than he had at each of his trips to NCAAs.

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17 hours ago, calot said:

Anyone notice Abounader had to FF his match to Israel.Lebanon like Iran won't let athletes compete against Israel.Bad deal for him he will no longer represent Lebanon

Considering he doesn't live in Lebanon, I wonder if it was fear for his family that kept him off the mat.  Or could they have kicked him off the team?

I respect his decision to leave, but surely he was aware that he should he ever draw an Israeli, he'd have to, or at least be expected to, forfeit.

That said, I wonder how many do-overs those favorable Kazakh draws required?  Couldn't they have just added one more to the tally?

Edit: As much as I'm joking about the Kazakh draws, I won't be shocked to learn they were too good to be true.  Nonetheless, absent any corroborating evidence, I'll assume they were legitimate.

Edited by whaletail
clarity

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13 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Fair point.

That being said he had no control over the politix nor where his lineage is from.

As much as I think I disagree with the "sold his soul" claim, Abounader probably was trying to have his cake and eat it too (you know, the way most of us consume cake).

He must have known what would happen if he drew an Israeli, and was likely just playing the probabilities.  Completely understandable, and I can easily envision myself making the same decision.  An eminently reasonable "we'll cross that bridge when we have to" perspective, especially when the alternative means the end of his dream.

And if it was a first round match, they probably should have just taken a mulligan, and re-drawn.

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2 hours ago, whaletail said:

As much as I think I disagree with the "sold his soul" claim, Abounader probably was trying to have his cake and eat it too (you know, the way most of us consume cake).

He must have known what would happen if he drew an Israeli, and was likely just playing the probabilities.  Completely understandable, and I can easily envision myself making the same decision.  An eminently reasonable "we'll cross that bridge when we have to" perspective, especially when the alternative means the end of his dream.

And if it was a first round match, they probably should have just taken a mulligan, and re-drawn.

I agree, however ethically, this is saying “I don’t care if it’s a horrible hateful policy so long as it doesn’t affect me personally” which is gutless in itself. 

To those saying he can’t control his country’s policies - buddy, he’s a citizen of the United States. He chose to go out of his way to represent Lebanon. It was not the natural progression of his career as a wrestler. Lebanon had zero other wrestlers in the tournament. He played with fire and got burned. 

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On 9/22/2019 at 3:47 AM, whaletail said:

As much as I think I disagree with the "sold his soul" claim, Abounader probably was trying to have his cake and eat it too (you know, the way most of us consume cake).

He must have known what would happen if he drew an Israeli, and was likely just playing the probabilities.  Completely understandable, and I can easily envision myself making the same decision.  An eminently reasonable "we'll cross that bridge when we have to" perspective, especially when the alternative means the end of his dream.

And if it was a first round match, they probably should have just taken a mulligan, and re-drawn.

Well, the re-drawn idea wasn't going to happen.  UWW hates the politics that Iran and Lebanon play on the mat.  For the sake of fair competitions, I am just glad that Abounader had not beaten any prior competitors that were counting on him to pull them to the repechage.  That happened in 2013 at Junior Worlds in the semi-finals.  UWW disqualified the athlete from Iran for not competing and didn't allow him to compete in the 3rd place match.  Also, the 2 wrestlers he had defeated were eliminated from repechage.

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55 minutes ago, neutralpositionref said:

Well, the re-drawn idea wasn't going to happen.  UWW hates the politics that Iran and Lebanon play on the mat.  For the sake of fair competitions, I am just glad that Abounader had not beaten any prior competitors that were counting on him to pull them to the repechage.  That happened in 2013 at Junior Worlds in the semi-finals.  UWW disqualified the athlete from Iran for not competing and didn't allow him to compete in the 3rd place match.  Also, the 2 wrestlers he had defeated were eliminated from repechage.

I'm sure UWW does hate the fact that Iran and Lebanon (anyone else?) forfeit to Israel, but apparently not enough to do anything about it.  Perhaps they're not able to ban them from competition, etc. for their policies, but regardless, the end result is that these forfeits occur.

Given that they do occur, why not try to minimize the associated damage by at least re-drawing whenever either country is in the same quad as Israel, or at least in the rare instances that they draw an Israeli opponent?

 

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1 hour ago, whaletail said:

I'm sure UWW does hate the fact that Iran and Lebanon (anyone else?) forfeit to Israel, but apparently not enough to do anything about it.  Perhaps they're not able to ban them from competition, etc. for their policies, but regardless, the end result is that these forfeits occur.

Given that they do occur, why not try to minimize the associated damage by at least re-drawing whenever either country is in the same quad as Israel, or at least in the rare instances that they draw an Israeli opponent?

 

The rest of the countries would believe it to be unfair.  Let's just say the returning World Champion from a country that objects to wrestling Israel draws an Israeli in the early rounds.  Well, the rest of the competitors believe this is a good draw because that wrestler will be eliminated which increases their chances of being World Champion.

Edited by neutralpositionref

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1 hour ago, whaletail said:

I'm sure UWW does hate the fact that Iran and Lebanon (anyone else?) forfeit to Israel, but apparently not enough to do anything about it.  Perhaps they're not able to ban them from competition, etc. for their policies, but regardless, the end result is that these forfeits occur.

Given that they do occur, why not try to minimize the associated damage by at least re-drawing whenever either country is in the same quad as Israel, or at least in the rare instances that they draw an Israeli opponent?

 

Maybe we could have a redraw whenever a USA wrestler draws a Russian?

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