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Downey > Retherford?

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I think Cinnamon Bun is still sleeping so thought I would pose this question in his place. In his first Senior worlds appearance Pat Downey went 2-1 doubling the lifetime wins Zain has at this tournament and half the losses. Is there a case to be made that from a P4P standpoint Downey is slightly ahead of Retherford? Seems like a legit question to me... I will say yes. for now at least.

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Downey also medaled at juniors. Zain Train only medaled at cadets. 

Downey took the team spot from a guy on Zain’s team

Downey had good training partners like Nick Suriano. Zain has coaches who are twice his size. 

Downey has more tattoos than zain, suggesting he has higher pain tolerance 

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1 minute ago, Housebuye said:

Downey also medaled at juniors. Zain Train only medaled at cadets. 

Downey took the team spot from a guy on Zain’s team

Downey had good training partners like Nick Suriano. Zain has coaches who are twice his size. 

Downey has more tattoos than zain, suggesting he has higher pain tolerance 

All very valid points. Most interesting to me is that Downey has a junior world silver and Zain was never able to make the team being beaten out by Tsirtsis and Pico multiple times.

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Well I don't know to compare Zain and PD3 in regards to competing against guys in their respective weight class. 

Zain no doubt has the college accolades, but in Freestyle Internationally, it's been kind of hit and miss for him on the Senior level. Earlier this year though, he was on the World Cup team and had some very good wins, but unfortunately didn't do as well as many of us had hoped he would at these World Championships. I don't know what the answer is, but I have to think that he will spend this upcoming year training and competing, and I believe he will improve. Hopefully he improves more than his competition. 

PD3, obviously did not have the same success as Zain in college, but did earn a Silver medal at the Jr. World Championships. But to me, I think PD3 is a guy that has had a few detours in his career, but has stuck with it, and put together a pretty good year for himself. I think joining the NJRTC, has obviously helped. Looking at his matches last night, I thought he did pretty well, but his opponent from Germany just had the right technique to get past PD3 fairly easily. But as a side note, this German then went on to face Myles Amine (Michigan, competing for San Marino ), and lose. So was this a style thing that caused PD3 to lose to the German, or has Amine's preperation in the run up to this competition been better, or was it because Amine was able to fire off better leg attacks than PD3 was able to do? 

Looking at this upcoming year, I am assuming that PD3 will continue to train at the NJRTC, and try and make another Sr.Team. But I have no idea how things will work out for him or Zain, all I can do is wish them luck. 

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I think this will be the only time Downey is on a world team. Zain certainly has a much better chance to make another team, to be conservative I’d say Zain has a 50% chance to make the Olympic team. While Downey only has at best a 15% chance with DT coming back, Dieringer moving up and potentially Cox coming down. 

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9 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I think this will be the only time Downey is on a world team. Zain certainly has a much better chance to make another team, to be conservative I’d say Zain has a 50% chance to make the Olympic team. While Downey only has at best a 15% chance with DT coming back, Dieringer moving up and potentially Cox coming down. 

Don't forget Zahid, my man. An improved Myles Martin will be in contention as well as a slew of other folks who will mature into 86kg next season(Dean, Hidlay, healthy Reenan, etc).

I believe Downey's chances are lower than 15%. Maybe even under 5%, regardless of Cox competing.

Zain also is substantially lower than 50%. I favor him over everyone else, but you have:

Oliver, GHulk, Johnny, KcKenna, Gross, Eierman, Shnaulty, Ness, etc. Possibly a slew of 70kg guys, Pico, and Metcalf as well(pleeeeease). It's going to be a grind.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Don't forget Zahid, my man. An improved Myles Martin will be in contention as well as a slew of other folks who will mature into 86kg next season(Dean, Hidlay, healthy Reenan, etc).

I believe Downey's chances are lower than 15%. Maybe even under 5%, regardless of Cox competing.

Zain also is substantially lower than 50%. I favor him over everyone else, but you have:

Oliver, GHulk, Johnny, KcKenna, Gross, Eierman, Shnaulty, Ness, etc. Possibly a slew of 70kg guys, Pico, and Metcalf as well(pleeeeease). It's going to be a grind.

The reason I see Zain at 50% is because I think he’ll be the 1 seed with Yianni the 2 and JO the 3. So he’ll see one of them in the finals. Imo nobody else poses a real big threat. Of course anything can happen and upsets are a thing but Zain hasn’t never lost in State college I don’t think. Also you are a clown if think Pico or Metcalf at this point are good enough to show up and make any noise. As far as Downey goes my point was made with those 3 simple examples, so no need to name the entire bracket. 

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1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I think this will be the only time Downey is on a world team. Zain certainly has a much better chance to make another team, to be conservative I’d say Zain has a 50% chance to make the Olympic team. While Downey only has at best a 15% chance with DT coming back, Dieringer moving up and potentially Cox coming down. 

15%???  Try .0000015%.

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