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TripNSweep

Abounader forfeits?

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3 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Does anyone know what happened?  Since he was wrestling for Lebanon did he forfeit becaushe had to wrestle Israel?

That's it. He  also quit Team Lebanon, apparently for that reason. See the Michigan thread.

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8 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Was he unaware of the politics of the country he chose to represent?

He might have been.  Lebanon isn't really a sports powerhouse and Israel competes with Europe while Lebanon competes with Asia so there's pretty limited chances to compete against each other in anything.  You'd only see it at a world championships and I can't think of the last time Lebanon sent anyone to wrestle.  

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10 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Was he unaware of the politics of the country he chose to represent?

If you read his Twitter post, you'll learn:

  • He chose to represent Lebanon because he's proud of his heritage
  • He didn't want to be in the situation of having to forfeit to a wrestler over politics
  • He sees wrestling as an expression of brotherhood
  • He will no longer be representing Lebanon in the future

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1 minute ago, Katie said:

If you read his Twitter post, you'll learn:

  • He chose to represent Lebanon because he's proud of his heritage
  • He didn't want to be in the situation of having to forfeit to a wrestler over politics
  • He sees wrestling as an expression of brotherhood
  • He will no longer be representing Lebanon in the future

I did read it, I was just wondering if he knew this ahead of time.

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It’s one thing to immigrate to a country, become a citizen, and represent it.  That represents the best of what the Olympics are about. To represent a country just because your parents/grandparents are from there is gaming the system though in my opinion. 

 

And I think the IOC should sanction Lebanon for this, but they have very few athletes. 

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6 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

It’s one thing to immigrate to a country, become a citizen, and represent it.  That represents the best of what the Olympics are about. To represent a country just because your parents/grandparents are from there is gaming the system though in my opinion. 

 

And I think the IOC should sanction Lebanon for this, but they have very few athletes. 

If the rules allow you to represent one of two countries, why wouldn't you pick the country with less domestic competition? Doesn't it just make sense?

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2 minutes ago, Katie said:

If the rules allow you to represent one of two countries, why wouldn't you pick the country with less domestic competition? Doesn't it just make sense?

I understand why the athletes do it. I just think it’s wrong how you can get paper citizenship with minimal actual connection to the country just to compete. This does not apply to ppl like Franklin Gomez or Chamizo who are both very connected to the countries they represent. This is more about what Michigan and the Russians do. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

I understand why the athletes do it. I just think it’s wrong how you can get paper citizenship with minimal actual connection to the country just to compete. This does not apply to ppl like Franklin Gomez or Chamizo who are both very connected to the countries they represent. This is more about what Michigan and the Russians do. 

I think if guys like Abounader, Amine, Habat, Micic, etc. have a legit connection to their country then why not?  Habat said he used to spend summers in Slovenia and his parents have a house there.  Not sure what the deal with the others is, but I'm guessing it's similar.  In the case of the Amines they could tour their entire country on foot in a day or so.  

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1 minute ago, wrestlingphish said:

What would be preventing Abounader from wrestling Israel and then never wrestling for Lebanon again? Would the country threaten or imprison his family still living there?

Getting Israeli citizenship is a pain in the ass, and I'm pretty sure Abounader isn't Jewish (just a guess), and that makes it much more difficult.  He would have to move there and enlist in the military for a period of time, since it's required by most citizens.  Even if he didn't need to serve in the military, you'd still need to live there for a set period of time.  Also there might be some kind of retribution towards his family, but Lebanon doesn't really seem to care about wrestling so they might not even notice.

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Trip - I think you read Phish’s post too quickly.  He isn’t saying he should wrestle for Israel.

———-

From a UMich student to wrestling at a world championship to being in the middle of Middle East politics.  Big time life experience.

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36 minutes ago, Katie said:

If you read his Twitter post, you'll learn:

  • He chose to represent Lebanon because he couldn’t make our team 
  • He didn't want to be in the situation of having to forfeit to a wrestler over politics
  • He sees wrestling as an expression of brotherhood
  • He will no longer be representing Lebanon in the future

Fixed it for you. 

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44 minutes ago, Katie said:

If you read his Twitter post, you'll learn:

  • He chose to represent Lebanon because he's proud of his heritage
  • He didn't want to be in the situation of having to forfeit to a wrestler over politics
  • He sees wrestling as an expression of brotherhood
  • He will no longer be representing Lebanon in the future

But did it anyway, thus letting their ideology to continue...

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3 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

Sort of naive question, but what if he had just taken the mat and disregarded whatever the country or coaches there told him?  What could have happened?

Strip him of his citizenship, maybe do stuff to his relatives.  

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32 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

I think if guys like Abounader, Amine, Habat, Micic, etc. have a legit connection to their country then why not?  Habat said he used to spend summers in Slovenia and his parents have a house there.  Not sure what the deal with the others is, but I'm guessing it's similar.  In the case of the Amines they could tour their entire country on foot in a day or so.  

I don’t think parent having a house and spending summers there is enough of a connection. If he grew up there, then he should be able to represent them, but simply having your parents from the country and visiting shouldn’t be sufficient.

Just now, dmm53 said:

Sort of naive question, but what if he had just taken the mat and disregarded whatever the country or coaches there told him?  What could have happened?

He said that he has family there, so my guess is that there could be repercussions for them. 

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4 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

I don’t think parent having a house and spending summers there is enough of a connection. If he grew up there, then he should be able to represent them, but simply having your parents from the country and visiting shouldn’t be sufficient.

He said that he has family there, so my guess is that there could be repercussions for them. 

If you spend a lot of time there and can speak and language and have relatives and such there, that's definitely more than a paper connection.  Alex Dolly who wrestled for Ireland a few years ago said that he had never even visited Ireland and was still able to gain citizenship through a grandparent.  

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Just now, TripNSweep said:

If you spend a lot of time there and can speak and language and have relatives and such there, that's definitely more than a paper connection.  Alex Dolly who wrestled for Ireland a few years ago said that he had never even visited Ireland and was still able to gain citizenship through a grandparent.  

I agree that it’s a case by case situation. If time spent is essentially 50/50 then absolutely you should be able to represent them. That’s the embodiment of a dual citizen. If it is a couple summers growing up visiting relatives, then you shouldn’t be able to represent them. And of course just having a grandparent shouldn’t be sufficient. 

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

I agree that it’s a case by case situation. If time spent is essentially 50/50 then absolutely you should be able to represent them. That’s the embodiment of a dual citizen. If it is a couple summers growing up visiting relatives, then you shouldn’t be able to represent them. And of course just having a grandparent shouldn’t be sufficient. 

Every country has their own rules about who is eligible to gain citizenship and how you do it.  A friend of mine who was a state champion in high school wants to wrestle for El Salvador since his mother was born there and he wants to be able to train at the RTC.  He speaks Spanish but has never visited there.  

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I have no idea what he knew. But it's possible he did not know about Lebanon's policy re wrestling Israelis. And if he even thought about it, he might have figure that it was pretty unlikely he'd wind up facing an Israeli.

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