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How did Kazakhstan get 2nd place?

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19 minutes ago, Coach_J said:

If you believe in the speculation of cooked brackets, well, there you go.  That said, they had some guys put together solid meets and the hometown energy probably helped a bit.

They benefited from very fortunate brackets. (For example, at 74kg, compare JB’s quarter to the KAZ quarter.)

They also benefited from miraculous officiating. (Watch the Bajrang-KAZ semi for instance.)

Their luck was so good that they managed to place two guys in the finals who promptly got teched.

Edited by Katie

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15 minutes ago, Katie said:

They benefited from very fortunate brackets. (For example, at 74kg, compare JB’s quarter to the KAZ quarter.)

They also benefited from miraculous officiating. (Watch the Bajrang-KAZ semi for instance.)

Their luck was so good that they managed to place two guys in the finals who promptly got teched.

Those "random draws" kept coming out smellin' pretty darn good for Team Kazahkstan!  Pure coincidence I'm sure as we all know UWW/FILA's history of spotless integrity is beyond reproach...

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2 minutes ago, Coach_J said:

Those "random draws" kept coming out smellin' pretty darn good for Team Kazahkstan!  Pure coincidence I'm sure as we all know UWW/FILA's history of spotless integrity is beyond reproach...

KAZ managed to qualify every weight but 86kg and 125kg.

And all they had to do to qualify 86kg was beat the Colombian. But their guy couldn’t do that.

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37 minutes ago, NJDan said:

There have been a lot of suggestions that the draws were cooked. But how to they do the random draws? Do they do it in front of the coaches or is it in a back room?

Flo posted a couple draw videos.

They have a handheld random number generator that a coach presses a button that gives them a number. They go alphabetically(A-Z or Z-A) with each country.

It would take a little work, but it is not out of character for UWW to be corrupt.

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2 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Flo posted a couple draw videos.

They have a handheld random number generator that a coach presses a button that gives them a number. They go alphabetically(A-Z or Z-A) with each country.

It would take a little work, but it is not out of character for UWW to be corrupt.

FILA was known for its corruption, but I thought UWW had a better reputation. Anyhow, once you get to the quarters, you have to beat someone good no matter  what your seed is.And Kazis did that.

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4 minutes ago, NJDan said:

FILA was known for its corruption, but I thought UWW had a better reputation. Anyhow, once you get to the quarters, you have to beat someone good no matter  what your seed is.And Kazis did that.

not all wrestlers who reach the quarters are good no matter what. several wrestlers who are not very good made the quarters this year. at 57 Sanayev beat Tigeros of Columbia and at 70 Kaiponov beat Cojocaru of Great Britain. also lol at Kazis. 

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By some remarkable coincidence, the Kazakhs managed to avoid virtually all the strong non-seeded guys until the SF/F. 

At 57kg Amiraslanov, Atri, Fix, Yatsenko, Bekhbayar, Armenian Euro Champ and Kumar all unseeded and all on the other bracket to Sanayev, giving him an easy path to the semis.

At 65kg unseeded Haji Aliyev, Rashidov, Amir Yazdani, Valdes - same story, giving Niyazbekov clear road to the SF. Then lucky calls went his way (to say the last), giving him a final.

At 70kg unseeded Green, Gadzhiev, Navruzov and Baev all on the other bracket to Kaipanov! 

I could go on but I think you get the idea...

 

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Draw procedure

The seeds from the seeding events are placed in the brackets accordingly.  All countries have access to these events, but since they are all in Europe or west Asia, it is easier for the former Soviet block countries to get their star athletes to all of these for better seeds.

About an hour before weigh ins begin, the wrestlers are cleared by medical.  Some then sit in line for weigh ins to begin, some go back to their team area to wait.  The wrestlers line up for weigh ins in whichever order they arrive before weigh ins begin.

At the scale, which is in a wide open area viewable to all, the wrestler's identification is verified by passport.  The athletes present themselves to weigh in any order they choose.  The athlete then presses a button on a random number generating machine cycling randomly with numbers between 1 to 99.  When the button is pressed by the wrestler and a number has been selected, it will not repeat (must be turned off and on for the next weight class to reset the RNG).  The number is shown to all and called out.  It is also entered in the computer. 

The rest of the bracket is created based on the order of the draw numbers, lowest at the top progressing to highest at the bottom.

The draw number machine and the computer are not linked in any way.  The draw number machine and the computer have no way of knowing who is pushing the button.  There is no way to rig this system in favor of any wrestler.  A split second earlier or later for pressing the button, the wrestler would get a different number and end up in a different part of the bracket.

Edited by neutralpositionref

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Usually win/loss percentage is more predictive of team performance down the road than the "luck of the draw" UWW scoring system. You can rack up UWW points with easy draws that get you those "filler" 5th and 7th place positions where you actually went 1-2 or 2-2--losing all your matches against decent opponents. Winning percentage exposes those mediocre performances.

Comparing Kazakhstan to the US and others this year in terms of the more predictive statistic (winning percentage):

2. Kazakhstan: 25-15 (60%)

3. United States: 22-9 (71%)

4. Iran: 20-9 (69%)

5. Georgia: 18-10 (64%)

6. India: 18-10 (64%)

7. Azerbaijan: 16-11 (59%)

(Russia won 89% at 41-5 by the way, but they deserve their own category this year.)

Edited by maligned

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21 hours ago, neutralpositionref said:

Draw procedure

The seeds from the seeding events are placed in the brackets accordingly.  All countries have access to these events, but since they are all in Europe or west Asia, it is easier for the former Soviet block countries to get their star athletes to all of these for better seeds.

About an hour before weigh ins begin, the wrestlers are cleared by medical.  Some then sit in line for weigh ins to begin, some go back to their team area to wait.  The wrestlers line up for weigh ins in whichever order they arrive before weigh ins begin.

At the scale, which is in a wide open area viewable to all, the wrestler's identification is verified by passport.  The athletes present themselves to weigh in any order they choose.  The athlete then presses a button on a random number generating machine cycling randomly with numbers between 1 to 99.  When the button is pressed by the wrestler and a number has been selected, it will not repeat (must be turned off and on for the next weight class to reset the RNG).  The number is shown to all and called out.  It is also entered in the computer. 

The rest of the bracket is created based on the order of the draw numbers, lowest at the top progressing to highest at the bottom.

The draw number machine and the computer are not linked in any way.  The draw number machine and the computer have no way of knowing who is pushing the button.  There is no way to rig this system in favor of any wrestler.  A split second earlier or later for pressing the button, the wrestler would get a different number and end up in a different part of the bracket.

With the change to day of weigh-ins this is not the procedure any more. They do the draw the afternoon before with the coaches pressing the magic button.

Doing some research this magic button machine does not act exactly like it should.

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On 9/22/2019 at 10:32 AM, Katie said:

They benefited from very fortunate brackets. (For example, at 74kg, compare JB’s quarter to the KAZ quarter.)

They also benefited from miraculous officiating. (Watch the Bajrang-KAZ semi for instance.)

Their luck was so good that they managed to place two guys in the finals who promptly got teched.

I thought Micic got the shaft in his bronze medal match with I believe a Kasakhstani wrestler.  I thought he had an obvious takeddown that was not given.

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1 hour ago, fadzaev2 said:

I thought Micic got the shaft in his bronze medal match with I believe a Kasakhstani wrestler.  I thought he had an obvious takeddown that was not given.

Sanayev was literally holding onto three of his toes, and Micic was completely behind him, and under both arms.  Eventually, the ref signalled 2, but it was waved off (if I'm remembering correctly).  Unbelievable.

He was also constantly warned, and penalized for grabbing fingers when he's never before had an issue with that (and the Kazakh has), which I'm sure threw off his head/hands defense.

Nonetheless, I was happy he at least qualified the weight.

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Guys I’m happy for the Kazakh wrestlers, but there is obviously something shady here. There are way too many coincidences for the home team. Way too many people benefit from this ‘anomaly’ 

Remember that it isn’t 50/50 to get a lucky draw in each weight. Even if it were, this would be incredibly unlikely, but it’s worse than that. 

Getting drawn into the top side without being the 1 or 4 seed, depending on weight, has about a 40% chance of happening. It’s absolutely crazy how many weights this occurred in. 

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