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TBar1977

Flo 2019-2020 College Rankings

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Dunno. I recall reading it recently though. Not sure whether here or on Twitter.

Edit: HawkeyeReport forum has good discussion of rankings.

Edited by jon

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1 hour ago, jon said:

My opinion is that Flo's business model leads to a causals v. diehards situation, a haves v. havenots situation. Flo business model serves to decrease accessibility of wrestling to potential fans. Flo pricing structure a turn-off to all but the most die-hard fans.

There's no entitlement on my part. There's no sour grapes on my part. I'm here to opine about Flo just like you're here, apparently, to opine about Flo.

 

You are on a wrestling board 7 days a week, so you are a die hard wrestling fan. Flo's model OBVIOUSLY works or they would not be in business. Every company has critics. You have made your stand that you are more interested in being a critic of Flo than in buying their product, and you have gone so far as to ask others to violate Flo's copyrighted material for YOUR PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.

You want their labor, but for FREE. You are acting like you are entitled, jon. 

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1 hour ago, jon said:

No whining in general. No whining about having to pay for things. When Flo paywall creeps bigger and bigger, it makes sense for wrestling fans to talk about Flo pricing. The phrase 'Flo pricing' refers to pricing scheme (i.e., yearly subscription) not to dollar amount.

I myself can afford $150 a year. My take on Flo does not reflect my own circumstances.

Your assertion "whining that you have to pay for things in this world" is false, baseless, disingenuous. If you're gonna say nonsense when you see my posts then just put me on ignore.

All in favor say aye???

I am pretty new to the site but honestly annoying it always comes back to this no matter what thread.......................

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

You are on a wrestling board 7 days a week, so you are a die hard wrestling fan. Flo's model OBVIOUSLY works or they would not be in business. Every company has critics. You have made your stand that you are more interested in being a critic of Flo than in buying their product, and you have gone so far as to ask others to violate Flo's copyrighted material for YOUR PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.

You want their labor, but for FREE. You are acting like you are entitled, jon. 

Tbar, of course Flo's business model works for Flo. Most critique, however, looks at how Flo's business model affects *wrestling*. On this forum even more common than Flo talk is Grow The Sport talk. Everyone talk about Growing The Sport. How on Earth does paywall plus lock-in work towards that goal?! You want to Grow The Sport? Set up pricing options (a la Track). Set up month-to-month low barrier (a la ESPN, HBO, Netflix etc). Give support to products that have those nice pricing features! Give critique to products that don't!

Flo proponents talk about me in particular and I really don't understand. 'Entitled' absolutely does not matter. Whether or not I'm entitled is irrelevant. Flo's mediocre whether or not I'm entitled. But--that's right--it's easier for Flo proponents to target me individually than it is for one to talk about Flo shortcomings, trade-offs. Flo proponents act as if there's never gonna be a big thread with multiple voices speaking out against Flo lol. Rah rah rah coverage access unprecedented yup sure right.

As Flo becomes prominent, there's gonna be discussion and there's gonna be scrutiny and there's gonna be critique. Flo proponents ought to get used to it.

Tbar, please take care when writing your posts. You're making claims that are flat-out false. I've not ever asked someone to violate copyright. Back off, man.

Lastly: You, Tbar, don't know whether or not I subscribe to Flo. I try to not answer that question. It's irrelevant to discussion. Any- and all wrestling fans ought to take interest in Flo pricing. That's what happens when Flo tries to be big dawg.

Edited by jon

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My two cents as a tOSU fan, on the tOSU lineup:

125 - Heinselman (20th).  Rumor has it that he has put on a little bit of size.  Any size at all is going to help him, given his diminutive stature last year, getting horsed around by the bigger guys.  From a technique perspective, I think he's top notch.  He just needs the strength to accompany it.  I think he's probably a R12 guy, unless he got on NaTo's lifting regimen.  If so, low AA potential (and I mean the word potential).

133 - Pletcher (4th).  Ranked just about right.  Below who he should be below, ahead of those he has beaten.  

141 - KeyShawn (13th).  Seeing Keyshawn back at 141 is going to be a trip.  I hope this weight class allows him to open up a bit more.  for a light middleweight, he "lumbers" more than anyone.  However, when he does commit to his offense, he's quite proficient and prolific.  Just wish he did it more.  I think we'll see KeyShawn rise fairly quickly, and he'll be an AA threat at the end of the season.

149 - Sasso (5th).  I think he's ranked about right, especially after having a really nice RS season.  If his gas tank hold up, and he's in "good" shape, he has the skill set and capability to win it.  If his gas tank fails, like against Brayton Lee in FS, then he could have a VERY rough NCAA tourney. 

157 - No one ranked.  I have to assume that Jaden Mattox will be taking the spot here?  If so, I expect him to lose some matches that he's supposed to lose, win those that he supposed to win, and pull an upset or two along the way.  

165 - Romero (25th).  Unfortunately, I think this is about right.  He still hasn't seemed to come into his own, and has all the talent and athletic ability.  If Kharchla pushes him (or breaks him) in the room, it will either allow him to rocket up the rankings, or he'll be mediocre at the collegiate level (at best).

174 - Smith (13th).  I think it's about right to rank him here at the beginning of the season, but I do think that he'll slowly rise throughout the season.  I project a low AA potential for Smith, but that means some mild upsets from losses he took last season.

184 - Hoffman (16th).  Without much data, this is a fair preseason ranking.  However, by the end of the season, I could definitely see Hoffman sitting around the 7th-10th range.  Low AA potential this season.  Keyword... potential.

197 - Moore (1st).  Kollin brings it home this year.  :-)

HWT - Singletary (10th).  Very fair preseason ranking.  I could see him rise slightly.  The top tier of HWT's are on a different level.  Chase will be better served at 197 next year, and should have much greater success (as denoted by his offseason FS performances at the lower weight).

Overall, the tOSU preseason ratings seem very fair.

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17 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Couple of thoughts...

1) I don't have many gripes--everyone looks to be more or less where they should be based on folkstyle results last year.  

2) There are a lot of redshirt freshmen currently ranked outside of the top 8 that I think most of us expect to AA, and the #6 - #14 range at a lot of these weight is going to be extremely competitive.

3) 141 is WIDE open, and I love Dom Demas but I gotta think he's the favorite for first #1 to drop a match.  

4) David Carr is winning 157, right?

 

Hidlay May be able to beat Carr. He is elite. 

Other than that? Unless Carr is terrible on bottom or can’t handle the grind, I think he places top 3 (only loss to Hidlay). Or champ. He may take some random in season losses 

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Cornell rankings from Flo pretty much as expected. Only ranked at 133, (Tucker at 9) 174 (Womack at 14 or 15), 184 (Darmstadt at 2) and 285 (Furman at 25). Glad to see Furman sneak in - he had some decent freestyle results over the summer. I can't really complain about anyone getting shorted. The frosh will have to prove their way onto the board.

Edited by ugarte

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2 hours ago, russelscout said:

The fact that he got majored in the finals  and warner didnt look great thinks its an outlier. Sloan will be good, but I dont like that they put him at 5 this soon.

I agree.  I'm from Illinois so I had the pleasure of watching Warner throughout high school and he didn't look like himself early in the season.   

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10 minutes ago, Big Nasty said:

I agree.  I'm from Illinois so I had the pleasure of watching Warner throughout high school and he didn't look like himself early in the season.   

I don't know if "like himself" is the right term. I know there were mumblings about a possible injury early on, but I don't think that is it. I think it was that Warner was just not acclimated to wrestling stronger, more physically mature guys yet. It is an awfully big change going from steamrolling high school kids to wrestling college guys and having to compete every match, and I don't think he was as physically strong as he needed to be to see the success he was capable of last year. It will be interesting to see if there is some improvement in that department this year. 

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10 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Hidlay May be able to beat Carr. He is elite. 

Other than that? Unless Carr is terrible on bottom or can’t handle the grind, I think he places top 3 (only loss to Hidlay). Or champ. He may take some random in season losses 

If Deakin is there, can't look past him either.  

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Just a note: NBCUniversal (parent company of TrackWrestling, by the way) is charging $200 for the Rugby World Cup, which is definitely not a yearly subscription. Flo is hardly the only company that charges a lot of money for content.

Oh, and BTW, Flo's $150 gets you access to ALL of Flo's material, for all sports. Not just wrestling.

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29 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I don't know if "like himself" is the right term. I know there were mumblings about a possible injury early on, but I don't think that is it. I think it was that Warner was just not acclimated to wrestling stronger, more physically mature guys yet. It is an awfully big change going from steamrolling high school kids to wrestling college guys and having to compete every match, and I don't think he was as physically strong as he needed to be to see the success he was capable of last year. It will be interesting to see if there is some improvement in that department this year. 

that is a very fair assessment.  I think warner can only improve in the strength department.  He has the frame to fill into a real solid 197er.  Thoughts on Big Cass at number 8?  I believe he will AA but I was surprised to see him ranked in the top ten already. 

Edited by Big Nasty

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39 minutes ago, SetonHallPirate said:

Just a note: NBCUniversal (parent company of TrackWrestling, by the way) is charging $200 for the Rugby World Cup, which is definitely not a yearly subscription. Flo is hardly the only company that charges a lot of money for content.

Oh, and BTW, Flo's $150 gets you access to ALL of Flo's material, for all sports. Not just wrestling.

Thanks lol. I've changed my mind. Total one-eighty!! FloMarching!!

Having access to "ALL of Flo's material" does nothing to increase enjoyment of FloWrestling. It's easier for one to 'get on board' with Flo, to develop a liking for Flo, to feel enjoyment from Flo, to tolerate shortcomings of Flo when the barrier to entry is low.

My opinion: Flo charging 'a lot of money' no big deal. Flo free to charge whatever the heck it wants. It's the commitment, the lock-in, the psychology of it all. Someone who's curious about wrestling ain't gonna sign up for $150/year. Someone who's curious about wrestling may well sign up for $12.50/month. Flo would silence much critique by creating (and not concealing!) pricing options.

Rugby PPV the exception not the rule. ESPN+, HBO, Netflix, UFC Fight Pass, WWE Network etc. Let's ignore all those and instead dig for a favorable comparison...

Edited by jon

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14 minutes ago, Big Nasty said:

that is a very fair assessment.  I think warner can only improve in the strength department.  He has the frame to fill into a real solid 197er.  Thoughts on Big Cass at number 8?  I believe he will AA but I was surprised to see him ranked in the top ten already. 

Cass was actually 11th.....

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26 minutes ago, Big Nasty said:

that is a very fair assessment.  I think warner can only improve in the strength department.  He has the frame to fill into a real solid 197er.  Thoughts on Big Cass at number 8?  I believe he will AA but I was surprised to see him ranked in the top ten already. 

I really dont know what to expect from him. I have seen him dominate in free, but could see where elements of his success would not transfer over to folk. He is a question mark for me.

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52 minutes ago, jon said:

Thanks lol. I've changed my mind. Total one-eighty!! FloMarching!!

Having access to "ALL of Flo's material" does nothing to increase enjoyment of FloWrestling. It's easier for one to 'get on board' with Flo, to develop a liking for Flo, to feel enjoyment from Flo, to tolerate shortcomings of Flo when the barrier to entry is low.

My opinion: Flo charging 'a lot of money' no big deal. Flo free to charge whatever the heck it wants. It's the commitment, the lock-in, the psychology of it all. Someone who's curious about wrestling ain't gonna sign up for $150/year. Someone who's curious about wrestling may well sign up for $12.50/month. Flo would silence much critique by creating (and not concealing!) pricing options.

Rugby PPV the exception not the rule. ESPN+, HBO, Netflix, UFC Fight Pass, WWE Network etc. Let's ignore all those and instead dig for a favorable comparison...

Flo I’m sure has done the analysis.

Flowrestling drives the most subscriptions for FloSports. Allowing monthly no commit agreements means most flowrestling subscribers would only pay for November-March (and maybe Jan-March) which would have a major negative impact on them. It causes major short term MRR churn, it would cost a ton to get someone to resubscribe driving up customer acquisition costs which investors hate, and even with that the subscriber drop off would be substantially higher.   

Monthly billing on an annual contract would be nice and/or multi year options with a price incentive (even if it all was paid up front) I think would make sense  

I doubt they will ever offer a month to month option, until they are acquired. Then it is possible depending on who acquires them and how they integrate 

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32 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I really dont know what to expect from him. I have seen him dominate in free, but could see where elements of his success would not transfer over to folk. He is a question mark for me.

It’s frustrating as he is a serious talent and should be competing for the finals, but in reality he has been borderline AA level. Still very good, but we all know he has more potential than that

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3 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Flo I’m sure has done the analysis... I doubt they will ever offer a month to month option, until they are acquired. Then it is possible depending on who acquires them and how they integrate 

 

pretty obvious to me that they had a monthly model and found that people were using it to dip in and out - especially during conference tournament season - like it was event pricing and it was terrible for the bottom line. they have annual subscriptions because there really aren't that many casuals but there are a lot of people who would choose a cheaper short-term option if it's available, but if it isn't will pay for the year and just watch more stuff. That certainly would have described me two years ago.

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