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hammerlockthree

Does anyone else think the Michigan thing is gross?

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5 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Universities don't pay taxes?  Harvard has a $39,000,000,000 endowment and pays no taxes?  Say it aint so!!!!  :)

It's so. And it is a joke. I say this as someone who used to work at one of these "hedge funds with classes" in the "hedge fund" (quote lifted from article below).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2017/11/27/ten-reasons-why-congress-is-right-to-tax-the-ivy-league/#4b92196f696d

 

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From my perspective our schools prior to college, and our institutions are education systems to people all over the world.  Even at the high school level foreign exchange students can compete in sports.  Whether they are US citizens or not if they are at an institution they are part of that community and system and should have the same access to all resources and facilities.  

As far as training with our guys and representing other countries it's no different than when our guys go overseas to train, or to take part in other organizations. Gwiz and now Deringer are wrestling in Germany for foreign teams.  Sure they are not representing those countries, but they are taking spots that could go to other Europeans.  I don't see any thing wrong with what Michigan has going on.  In fact I think it is shows character and I have even more respect for it.  Besides they aren't the first.  PSU does it and nobody says much.  In fact most people root for Gomez when he isn't wrestling an American. 

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Gross?  I think it's great and if you (every one of you) had the opportunity to represent another country and compete in the Olympics, you would.  If you say you wouldn't, your're lying.  Sean Bormet is all class and the way he supports his athletes is fantastic!

Edited by rod_frufit

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7 hours ago, rod_frufit said:

Gross?  I think it's great and if you (every one of you) had the opportunity to represent another country and compete in the Olympics, you would.  If you say you wouldn't, your're lying.  Sean Bormet is all class and the way he supports his athletes is fantastic!

I agree...when push comes to shove, most everyone knows something of their roots nowadays--even if it's 6 or 7 generations back--and who wouldn't represent those Italian or Nigerian or  British or Mexican roots if the opportunity was there and you were down the pecking order in the U.S.? The idea that it makes you less patriotic is very closed-minded in my opinion.

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On 9/24/2019 at 8:51 PM, hammerlockthree said:

I said it before worlds and now it just seems obvious.

Beyond the patriotic aspect, I think its that the The University of Michigan is trying to bolster its reputation in respect to other American Universities by ducking competition with them. 

I read none of the rest of the thread; only this initial comment, but I don't like the format of worlds. The more top wrestlers we allow to compete, the better. If Dake is #1 and Dieringer is really the 2nd best wrestler in the world, it is a shame he is not able to represent HIMSELF on the world stage. Patriotism is great and all, but I want to see a true world championships. I want to see one where all of the best wrestlers can compete. As long as we only send one guy per nation, I am in favor of Michigan doing this.

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Hammerlock’s take on this is a little off. First, it’s pretty obvious in Bormet’s interview that he is not pushing for this, his athletes representing another country is not his first choice, but as any coach should is supporting his athletes. So the initial post is obviously off. As for training a whole crop of Olympic teams, you are talking about two athletes who are the only representatives for that country. So again...a little extra. 

Nothing to see here...

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3 hours ago, maligned said:

I agree...when push comes to shove, most everyone knows something of their roots nowadays--even if it's 6 or 7 generations back--and who wouldn't represent those Italian or Nigerian or  British or Mexican roots if the opportunity was there and you were down the pecking order in the U.S.? The idea that it makes you less patriotic is very closed-minded in my opinion.

I don't think that's close minded at all.  I'm two generations removed and my grandfather came to the US for a reason.

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3 hours ago, russelscout said:

I read none of the rest of the thread; only this initial comment, but I don't like the format of worlds. The more top wrestlers we allow to compete, the better. If Dake is #1 and Dieringer is really the 2nd best wrestler in the world, it is a shame he is not able to represent HIMSELF on the world stage. Patriotism is great and all, but I want to see a true world championships. I want to see one where all of the best wrestlers can compete. As long as we only send one guy per nation, I am in favor of Michigan doing this.

Thats a decent point, but you would have to admit its kind of an odd and arbitrary solution to the problem you are pointing out.

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15 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Thats a decent point, but you would have to admit its kind of an odd and arbitrary solution to the problem you are pointing out.

How else do you do it? Allocated spots to each nation based off rankings? Allocated spots to each continent and put more stock in the continental championships? Im all for it, but its a long ways away.

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58 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I don't think that's close minded at all.  I'm two generations removed and my grandfather came to the US for a reason.

I dont mean to say that you're closed minded if you want to express your patriotism by feeling like you'd only want to represent the US. I mean I believe it's closed minded to think someone is a less patriotic citizen if they compete while representing a nation of their blood roots. I think both stances can come from equally patriotic people.

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On 9/27/2019 at 6:34 AM, Plasmodium said:

Universities don't pay taxes?  Harvard has a $39,000,000,000 endowment and pays no taxes?  Say it aint so!!!!  :)

 

On 9/27/2019 at 6:40 AM, wrestlingnerd said:

It's so. And it is a joke. I say this as someone who used to work at one of these "hedge funds with classes" in the "hedge fund" (quote lifted from article below).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2017/11/27/ten-reasons-why-congress-is-right-to-tax-the-ivy-league/#4b92196f696d

 

Neither do churches. Do you have a problem with that too? 

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3 hours ago, russelscout said:

How else do you do it? Allocated spots to each nation based off rankings? Allocated spots to each continent and put more stock in the continental championships? Im all for it, but its a long ways away.

Yeah sure, my point was that the best solution to an improper format is not a bunch of sleazy legalistic maneuvering. So despite the fringe benefit, I am still against the Michigan thing. 

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18 hours ago, scramble said:

 

As far as training with our guys and representing other countries it's no different than when our guys go overseas to train, or to take part in other organizations. Gwiz and now Deringer are wrestling in Germany for foreign teams.  Sure they are not representing those countries, but they are taking spots that could go to other Europeans.  I don't see any thing wrong with what Michigan has going on.  In fact I think it is shows character and I have even more respect for it.  Besides they aren't the first.  PSU does it and nobody says much.  In fact most people root for Gomez when he isn't wrestling an American. 

 

Eh, that IS different.  They're representing a team, not a country.   No one really has negative opinions about international wrestlers in the NCAA, because anyone can be a student.   


For the record again, I don't really mind it and would absolutely do the same thing, but they should probably adjust the RTC rules.

What Americans does PSU have representing other countries?   Gomez grew up in PR so his situation is different.  Or are you just referring to international guys training there?

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1 hour ago, wrestlingnerd said:

No, I’m good with churches. They’re not HFs with sermons. 

Right, churches invest in real estate instead.  People hate on the top schools because they didn't work hard enough to get in, but ignore analogous situations in nonprofits that may potentially include them. Nonprofits exist tax free because they aren't corporations-nobody gets an ROI from Harvard. The people who receive incomes from them do pay taxes like everyone else (and the university pays payroll taxes on these incomes), so effectively universities are paying taxes through their employees. The hedge funds that manage the endowments also pay taxes. Universities also voluntarily pay local taxes to support services like fire/police depts.  Universities are the same as any other nonprofit with an endowment-they use the endowment to cover operating expenses and allow it to compound tax free.  I don't know about you, but I'm happy that nonprofit institutions (like universities and RTCs) exist in this country and not every dollar runs through the federal government.  

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31 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Joel Osteen and his $60,000,000 net worth would like to have a conversation on his helipad

No offense, but this is the type of ignorant comment that makes me cringe about even replying to what I thought was an off topic but nevertheless interesting post by Plasmodium on a topic I devoted a decade of my life to. You clearly have zero clue what is being discussed.

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On 10/2/2019 at 5:37 PM, Billyhoyle said:

Right, churches invest in real estate instead.  People hate on the top schools because they didn't work hard enough to get in, but ignore analogous situations in nonprofits that may potentially include them. Nonprofits exist tax free because they aren't corporations-nobody gets an ROI from Harvard. The people who receive incomes from them do pay taxes like everyone else (and the university pays payroll taxes on these incomes), so effectively universities are paying taxes through their employees. The hedge funds that manage the endowments also pay taxes. Universities also voluntarily pay local taxes to support services like fire/police depts.  Universities are the same as any other nonprofit with an endowment-they use the endowment to cover operating expenses and allow it to compound tax free.  I don't know about you, but I'm happy that nonprofit institutions (like universities and RTCs) exist in this country and not every dollar runs through the federal government.  

Dang.  I just learned some academic facts on this forum and feel like I got a little bit of a Harvard education just now. :)

In all seriousness though, those were interesting points.  I didn't know or think about many of those points.  Good stuff.

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