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No Redshirt for Kerkvliet

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6 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

No. They are familiar with each other and Kerk’s Style is a good one to slow down Gable. 

The transitive property doesn’t apply to combat sports (or lost sports). Styles make fights/matches. Kerk is elite and has a style to shut down Gable. 

Gable is generational, but is vulnerable to Kerk’s style when implemented by another super high level guy. 

I think Kerk always gives him trouble but will never replicate his success. 

I’m a tOSU supporter so I’m rooting for Kerk but this is how I see it if I’m being honest

you are abslutly correct about styles making matches.  I have admittedly never see any of kerk's matches outside of his one with gable

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17 minutes ago, Big Nasty said:

I've thought a lot about this match and I keep wondering if Gable did just enough to win in an effort to help his friend look a bit better.  I'm not saying Kerk is a slouch by any means, only that I wouldn't be surprised if Gable and Kerk worked together in that match.  Maybe I'm wrong and Gable typically does just enough to win and then cruises the rest of the match. 

I would say Kerk  eating the 4th place finisher from last year's NCAAs 2 matches to zero is a good indication that he is more real than a HS match 2 years ago 

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

He went from getting his butt kicked by Coon to smashing him. There are a few other examples of him beating guys who beat him before, but this was the most dramatic

Good point, that’s fair. Was looking more at eyeball test, but valid. 

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42 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Are we sure Gable is even wrestling this year?   As of recently he is still off the team because the investigation has not completed.  He may just redshirt/olympic...

Nothing will come of the investigation.  He will be wrestling.  Book it.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I would say Kerk  eating the 4th place finisher from last year's NCAAs 2 matches to zero is a good indication that he is more real than a HS match 2 years ago 

I havnt seen this match.  i'll have to look it up. 

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I'm no longer sold that Gable is "generational".  

To be "generational", you have to be a Cael, a Dake, a Schultz, a Snyder.  

Snyder, as a true Freshman, takes 2nd to Gadsen, but then proceeds to win the World Team spot at 97kg, and then the World Championship, becoming the youngest ever to win a World Championship.

Gable, as a true Freshman, takes 3rd at NCAAs, but then proceeds to lose at Final X for the World Team spot, and does not attend the World Championships.

Since they're only a handful of years apart, they're in the same generation, and Snyder wins on criteria for "who" the generational one is.

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Kerk lost a match overseas to a big Iranian wrestler who pushed him around with a strength and size advantage. Underhooked him the whole match. Maybe an NCAA wrestler could exploit that as well, although those Iran wrestlers are the best at that. 

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On 9/25/2019 at 1:02 PM, Big Nasty said:

Seems like a waste for him not to take a red shirt.  An additional year in the room, time in the weight program, and extra time for his knee to heal up cold only benefit the team long term.  its not like tosu is going to contend for a title this year.   

Then he won't get the benefit of being a 4 Timer, winning as a True Freshman?

Has to be part of the thinking with this one. Come in, expect to win it all and then repeat, repeat, repeat so he is in the rarified air of Dake & Co.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

This years U23 finals best of three.  He won 6-5 then 6-3 against Wood.

Wasn't even really that close, Wood only got 1 legit TD on Kerk in the first match and got the other pts on pushouts as Kerk was milking the clock. Same in match 2 where Kerk was up 6-1 and basically laid on his belly to give Wood 2 pts instead of 4 as Wood was trying to throw him at the end.

Edited by DocBZ

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2 hours ago, treep2000 said:

I'm no longer sold that Gable is "generational".  

To be "generational", you have to be a Cael, a Dake, a Schultz, a Snyder.  

Snyder, as a true Freshman, takes 2nd to Gadsen, but then proceeds to win the World Team spot at 97kg, and then the World Championship, becoming the youngest ever to win a World Championship.

Gable, as a true Freshman, takes 3rd at NCAAs, but then proceeds to lose at Final X for the World Team spot, and does not attend the World Championships.

Since they're only a handful of years apart, they're in the same generation, and Snyder wins on criteria for "who" the generational one is.

Wouldn't Dake and Snyder be in the same generation?

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3 hours ago, treep2000 said:

I'm no longer sold that Gable is "generational".  

To be "generational", you have to be a Cael, a Dake, a Schultz, a Snyder.  

Snyder, as a true Freshman, takes 2nd to Gadsen, but then proceeds to win the World Team spot at 97kg, and then the World Championship, becoming the youngest ever to win a World Championship.

Gable, as a true Freshman, takes 3rd at NCAAs, but then proceeds to lose at Final X for the World Team spot, and does not attend the World Championships.

Since they're only a handful of years apart, they're in the same generation, and Snyder wins on criteria for "who" the generational one is.

I mean if you want to take generational literally, sure. 

I consider Snyder, Burroughs, and Cael generational. Maybe Cox, Dake and Taylor too if they all win another world gold

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36 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I mean if you want to take generational literally, sure. 

I consider Snyder, Burroughs, and Cael generational. Maybe Cox, Dake and Taylor too if they all win another world gold

Fair point

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As far as the talk about generational goes, it’s not where you start, it’s where you end up. John Smith went DNP, 2nd, 1st, 1st in NCAAs. Made the world team after his sophomore year but didn’t compete. Won worlds after his junior year. 

Snyder not only made the world team after his fresh year but he unseated the Olympic champion and then won the worlds. Meanwhile Dake couldn’t make the world team till last year and now has won twice with almost no points scored against him. So ...

My gut tells me Gable is our guy for 2020. He’s so young and so close. That said, I see him as a huge underdog against either of Geno or Akgul. 

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On 9/25/2019 at 7:56 PM, MDogg said:

In the interview he says it got “completely torn” again this spring after he had surgery last fall to get it fixed the first time. So he completely tore his ACL in the same knee twice in a 7 month span. Not good.

I’m guessing he’s going all in on trying to make the 2020 Olympic team and plans on getting it fixed after the trials (or games) wrap up. Either that or he knows his knee won’t hold up forever so why spend a year practicing but not competing? Especially when both times he tore his ACL last year was during practice...

Maybe he'll wrestle 1 match, realize he's still injured then get a medical redshirt 5 years from now

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I'm no longer sold that Gable is "generational".  
To be "generational", you have to be a Cael, a Dake, a Schultz, a Snyder.  
Snyder, as a true Freshman, takes 2nd to Gadsen, but then proceeds to win the World Team spot at 97kg, and then the World Championship, becoming the youngest ever to win a World Championship.
Gable, as a true Freshman, takes 3rd at NCAAs, but then proceeds to lose at Final X for the World Team spot, and does not attend the World Championships.
Since they're only a handful of years apart, they're in the same generation, and Snyder wins on criteria for "who" the generational one is.



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This one is sort of a head scratcher.  Virtually every sign points toward a logical redshirt year.  

1) He's wrestling at U23's the week before the season starts.  Presumably he'll take some time off before starting his folkstyle season, but we've seen guys struggle a little bit coming back, even more experienced guys like Hidlay and McKenna.  

2) The knee.  Conventional wisdom probably says a light load would be a good idea coming off of a major knee injury.  I'm not going to play doctor though--I have not clue here and have to assume this has been thoroughly vetted by multiple parties.  

3) Ohio State doesn't look like they're challenging for a title.  What's the delta on Kerk vs. Singletary? 8 points at NCAA's?  15, max?  If Kerkvliet starts you're burning a year of eligibility for both guys.  Kerk redshirt and Singletary moving to 197 next year makes a lot more sense on paper.  

 

With that said, if he does start, to me that means that (a) Ryan & Co. have a much higher view of their team than the public--meaning they think they can challenge the top 2, and/or (b) they think Kerkvliet is ready to challenge for a title right now. 

I guess if you figure Ohio State gets 3 finalists (Sasso, Moore, Kerkvliet) and ~8 AA's, they could score in the 120 area.  I don't exactly see it, but that could be enough to convince them they have a shot at it.  Unless there's an ace up the sleeve like a Rocky Jordan is the second coming of young Bo, or Kharchla is also ready to step in and high AA.  

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On 9/26/2019 at 2:52 PM, TBar1977 said:

Kerk lost a match overseas to a big Iranian wrestler who pushed him around with a strength and size advantage. Underhooked him the whole match. Maybe an NCAA wrestler could exploit that as well, although those Iran wrestlers are the best at that. 

The big Iranian (Amir Zare) that Kerk lost to at 110 kg in the 2018 Cadet Worlds is the same one who Mason Parris pinned in the 2019 Jr World Chp Finals.  

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11 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

The big Iranian (Amir Zare) that Kerk lost to at 110 kg in the 2018 Cadet Worlds is the same one who Mason Parris pinned in the 2019 Jr World Chp Finals.  

Wasn't Kerk rather fresh on his most recent ACL tear then? Like... hadn't it just happened and he competed anyways?

Edited by nhs67

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3 hours ago, lu1979 said:

The big Iranian (Amir Zare) that Kerk lost to at 110 kg in the 2018 Cadet Worlds is the same one who Mason Parris pinned in the 2019 Jr World Chp Finals.  

I was wondering about that... I thought that name was familiar from somewheres... Thanks for connecting the dots

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On 9/26/2019 at 8:10 AM, nhs67 said:

A much smaller Kerk gave Gable all he could handle in a 3-2 match two years ago.  You really believe Gable has improved that much more than Kerk?  Are you saying a larger Kerk is a worse Kerk?

And a much smaller Gable!

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On 9/27/2019 at 2:03 PM, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

This one is sort of a head scratcher.  Virtually every sign points toward a logical redshirt year.  

1) He's wrestling at U23's the week before the season starts.  Presumably he'll take some time off before starting his folkstyle season, but we've seen guys struggle a little bit coming back, even more experienced guys like Hidlay and McKenna.  

2) The knee.  Conventional wisdom probably says a light load would be a good idea coming off of a major knee injury.  I'm not going to play doctor though--I have not clue here and have to assume this has been thoroughly vetted by multiple parties.  

3) Ohio State doesn't look like they're challenging for a title.  What's the delta on Kerk vs. Singletary? 8 points at NCAA's?  15, max?  If Kerkvliet starts you're burning a year of eligibility for both guys.  Kerk redshirt and Singletary moving to 197 next year makes a lot more sense on paper.  

 

With that said, if he does start, to me that means that (a) Ryan & Co. have a much higher view of their team than the public--meaning they think they can challenge the top 2, and/or (b) they think Kerkvliet is ready to challenge for a title right now. 

I guess if you figure Ohio State gets 3 finalists (Sasso, Moore, Kerkvliet) and ~8 AA's, they could score in the 120 area.  I don't exactly see it, but that could be enough to convince them they have a shot at it.  Unless there's an ace up the sleeve like a Rocky Jordan is the second coming of young Bo, or Kharchla is also ready to step in and high AA.  

Keshawn Hayes at a very depleted 141 Could be that guy. Everyone is always down on him, but how many guys could  wrestle up two weight classes and be top 20?

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25 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

Keshawn Hayes at a very depleted 141 Could be that guy. Everyone is always down on him, but how many guys could  wrestle up two weight classes and be top 20?

More than you would think.

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