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russelscout

Flo Wrestling is good/bad for wrestling

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Good for wrestling in general. Provides video and technique libraries that kids can use to get better and stay interested, and I'd hypothesize has allowed more people to continue to follow wrestling. As someone else said, there isn't evidence that it's actually "growing the sport" though in getting new viewership. Good to see ESPN getting more involved in broadcasting duals or bigger matches because that's a platform that has the ability to catch more eyes. It's good that we all have multiple avenues to take in wrestling related content now, whether that be with a flo subscription or sticking to cable packages and youtube. 

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Lest we forget, ESPN expressed their desire to support and promote wrestling by advocating for a dual team championship several years ago.  Had that happened (thanks a lot Carl), who's to say how much their coverage and promotion of wrestling would have grown by now.  Unfortunately, Flo is what we were left with. Without looking, my guess is PSU fans will express unqualified support for Flo due to the uncomfortable reality that a better future with ESPN was shot down by their living god.

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On 9/26/2019 at 7:50 PM, 1032004 said:

Comparing Flo in 2019 to Iowa Public TV in 1989 is apples and oranges.

I agree. But i wasnt comparing to say anything other than how things have changed in the sport of wrestling. Flo came in and filled a void. Its not like they replaced a bunch of free content and then put up a paywall.

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1 hour ago, tigerfan said:

Lest we forget, ESPN expressed their desire to support and promote wrestling by advocating for a dual team championship several years ago.  Had that happened (thanks a lot Carl), who's to say how much their coverage and promotion of wrestling would have grown by now.  Unfortunately, Flo is what we were left with. Without looking, my guess is PSU fans will express unqualified support for Flo due to the uncomfortable reality that a better future with ESPN was shot down by their living god.

Even if that did happen, Espn would still probably only cover that event and not touch all the duals that Flo does.

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17 hours ago, unknown said:

hes classless and arrogant.  you say something he dont agree with or about flo, instant block on social media

I like Pyles. Then again I do not use twitter or any social media. Is that the difference? Because i do enjoy him on FRL and his commentary.

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On 9/26/2019 at 9:00 PM, SamStall365247 said:

Flo is not growing wrestling. There is no evidence to suggest that wrestling has grown as a result of Flo. To imply otherwise, is a crock.

Long term, if you are able to keep people life time fans, wouldnt it be more likely that those fans have their kids wrestle? I have talked to a lot of people from generations past who were in wrestling, some very good, who never watched or supported the sport again after they competed. Many never pushed their kids to do it or anything. By creating an avenue to continue to follow the sport, stop the bleeding of potential fans, doesnt that create growth?

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:00 PM, SamStall365247 said:

Flo is good for wrestling because it makes it easier to be a fan. 

Flo is not growing wrestling. There is no evidence to suggest that wrestling has grown as a result of Flo. To imply otherwise, is a crock.

In other words, no one new is getting into the sport because of Flo, but for those that are fans, it is easier to keep up. 

This basically my opinion.  Numbers are down nationally and still dropping.  PA is going to 12 weight classes next year to help "mask" the problem.

I do believe Flo has helped boost attendance to college matches which continue to still go up by making the sport more accessible.  But I also believe the average head coach out there today is more intelligent than the average coach 20 years ago and have learned how to market their programs.

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50 minutes ago, Boompa said:

This basically my opinion.  Numbers are down nationally and still dropping.  PA is going to 12 weight classes next year to help "mask" the problem.

This is a problem in sports in general. Just by observation I have noticed my local communities unable to field a freshman football teams which would have been unthinkable 15 years ago. 

The question shouldnt be is participation down. The question should be is declining more or less than other sports.

Edited by russelscout

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1 hour ago, russelscout said:

Even if that did happen, Espn would still probably only cover that event and not touch all the duals that Flo does.

We'll never know.  The argument that covering and promoting duals throughout the year to build interest in the national tournament is not without merit, obviously. PSU and Carl felt that continuing to win team titles with an individual tournament would be better to grow the sport than shifting at least some focus to duals and true team championships, which ESPN was actively encouraging us to do.  I don't know if we have good data yet, but I suppose we'll eventually be able to judge whether Carl was right.  Of course, PSU will always be able to fall back on "we don't know things would have been better."  Men's gymnastics, here we come!

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High School participation numbers are down, but quality is up.

So are the additions, at every college division and how bout women's programs. Resilite is packed with new orders, had thier best year ever last year too.

Flo is great for existing fans with good streaming capabilities. Bad for stealing PA States without offering a Pay Per View to one time watchers.

Best way to promote?

#TakeaFriendToAWrestlingMatch

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3 hours ago, tigerfan said:

Lest we forget, ESPN expressed their desire to support and promote wrestling by advocating for a dual team championship several years ago.  Had that happened (thanks a lot Carl), who's to say how much their coverage and promotion of wrestling would have grown by now.  Unfortunately, Flo is what we were left with. Without looking, my guess is PSU fans will express unqualified support for Flo due to the uncomfortable reality that a better future with ESPN was shot down by their living god.

Even if espn took wrestling it would be there 7 or 8th most important sport wrestling would get garbage coverage ,Flo is dedicated to 100 percent wrestling all the time, I don’t think the 2 are comparable , also hanging the whole national duals thing on Cael is a little disingenuous.obviously he made his opinions felt especially after Suriano broke his ankle in the “dual of the year” which wasn’t even close, but it was Iowa who refused to wrestle Virginia tech opening the flood gates, then after that other teams stated they wouldn’t wrestle certain teams. I think anyone whose a fan of a non major sport ( anything other then football baseball and basketball) would love to have a site and company so dedicated to the sport like Flo and there guys are for wrestling 

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4 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Even if espn took wrestling it would be there 7 or 8th most important sport wrestling would get garbage coverage ,Flo is dedicated to 100 percent wrestling all the time, I don’t think the 2 are comparable , also hanging the whole national duals thing on Cael is a little disingenuous.obviously he made his opinions felt especially after Suriano broke his ankle in the “dual of the year” which wasn’t even close, but it was Iowa who refused to wrestle Virginia tech opening the flood gates, then after that other teams stated they wouldn’t wrestle certain teams. I think anyone whose a fan of a non major sport ( anything other then football baseball and basketball) would love to have a site and company so dedicated to the sport like Flo and there guys are for wrestling 

You can postulate this because of...? Is it the garbage coverage they give the NCAA wrestling championships? While it is true that Carl was not the ONLY coach opposed to a Dual Team Championship, his voice was clearly the loudest.  As for Iowa/VT, that took place precisely BECAUSE what remained of the National Duals were largely meaningless since it wasn't the official team championship.  BTW, I'm not saying Flo is bad, I subscribe and appreciate their efforts.  In fact, ESPN probably never would have gotten interested in the first place without Flowrestling.  But they did, and when we had a chance to capitalize on that and move to the big leagues, Carl (and a few others) shot it down.  So now we remain with minor league operations like Flo and Track.  They do the best they can.  

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2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

..., also hanging the whole national duals thing on Cael is a little disingenuous.

You're either forgetting or not aware of the history of the ESPN/Natty Duals proposal.  As I've previously posted Fritz and Sunderland coached PSU to 15 podiums in 17 National Duals appearances, including two titles, three 3rds, and four 4ths.  Cael lost a single Virginia Duals, and then actively campaigned to destroy the National Duals, including writing a blog titled "Just Say No to  National Duals". 

Cael's decision to kill the National Duals  had nothing to do with growing the sport of wrestling, but everything to do with his own self-interest based upon his dismal 4-10-1 dual record vs the big three at the time (Minny, Iowa, Okie St).

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What's it like to be this delusional? 

I'm thinking more on a global scale.

 

Do you think the Russians, Iranians, Japanese need their damn technique videos?

 

Who is delusional now, son?

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cjc007 said:

I'm thinking more on a global scale.

 

Do you think the Russians, Iranians, Japanese need their damn technique videos?

 

Who is delusional now, son?

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

If there was any mention of this question being framed internationally, you’d have a point.

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1 hour ago, jammen said:

You're either forgetting or not aware of the history of the ESPN/Natty Duals proposal.  As I've previously posted Fritz and Sunderland coached PSU to 15 podiums in 17 National Duals appearances, including two titles, three 3rds, and four 4ths.  Cael lost a single Virginia Duals, and then actively campaigned to destroy the National Duals, including writing a blog titled "Just Say No to  National Duals". 

Cael's decision to kill the National Duals  had nothing to do with growing the sport of wrestling, but everything to do with his own self-interest based upon his dismal 4-10-1 dual record vs the big three at the time (Minny, Iowa, Okie St).

Not to mention the fact that he wrestled for ISU when they were losing to Iowa every year and he apparently developed a real disdain for the dual aspect of the sport.

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6 hours ago, russelscout said:

I agree. But i wasnt comparing to say anything other than how things have changed in the sport of wrestling. Flo came in and filled a void. Its not like they replaced a bunch of free content and then put up a paywall.

Fair enough,  but for one hasn’t Flo themselves been putting more and more behind the paywall?  According to this article - https://www.inc.com/magazine/201710/tom-foster/flosports.html , which I don’t see a date on but I’d guess is from 2016, said 80% of their content at the time was free.  I doubt that’s the case now.

It also says they were founded in 2006 and  had a little success in 2007 (moreso with track).  They started selling subscriptions in 2012.

There’s no way to know for sure, but I’m pretty confident if it wasn’t Flo it would’ve been someone else.   Even Netflix didn’t offer streaming until 2010, same with Hulu’s subscription service.  Even BTN as a whole didn’t start until 2007 and BTN2go  didn’t start until 2011 (and of course even now without Flo BTN subscribers probably would’ve had access to Iowa/OSU last year).

 

Edited by 1032004

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9 hours ago, tigerfan said:

Lest we forget, ESPN expressed their desire to support and promote wrestling by advocating for a dual team championship several years ago.  Had that happened (thanks a lot Carl), who's to say how much their coverage and promotion of wrestling would have grown by now.  Unfortunately, Flo is what we were left with. Without looking, my guess is PSU fans will express unqualified support for Flo due to the uncomfortable reality that a better future with ESPN was shot down by their living god.

A segment of coaches expressed that desire for a dual team championship. As you should know, the NCAA isn't going to allow two different versions of wrestling championships. So it's one or the other. 

ESPN airs the NCAA Championship as we know it. You act as if ESPN walked away from wrestling and all that remains is Flo. That is just not true. ESPN aired the NCAA Championship before that failed proposal and they air it today. 

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5 hours ago, tigerfan said:

You can postulate this because of...? Is it the garbage coverage they give the NCAA wrestling championships? While it is true that Carl was not the ONLY coach opposed to a Dual Team Championship, his voice was clearly the loudest.  As for Iowa/VT, that took place precisely BECAUSE what remained of the National Duals were largely meaningless since it wasn't the official team championship.  BTW, I'm not saying Flo is bad, I subscribe and appreciate their efforts.  In fact, ESPN probably never would have gotten interested in the first place without Flowrestling.  But they did, and when we had a chance to capitalize on that and move to the big leagues, Carl (and a few others) shot it down.  So now we remain with minor league operations like Flo and Track.  They do the best they can.  

Even with national duels wrestling would still be behind about 8 other sports on espn priority list..wrestling would never have “moved to the big leagues” on espn I appreciate your optimism but it wasn’t gonna happen..Also to call Flo minor leagues is a joke , while they have flaws, that I call out too, Flo brings wrestling to millions of people that would never have been able to see. They absolutely need to invest in upgrading there streams but take in account they are broadcasting from places like Wyoming. I’m not saying Cael didn’t complain but a lot of coaches were done with the national duels and the way it was trending, as a fan I would love for them to bring the duels back but I understand it from a coaches perspective too 

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Even with national duels wrestling would still be behind about 8 other sports on espn priority list..wrestling would never have “moved to the big leagues” on espn I appreciate your optimism but it wasn’t gonna happen..Also to call Flo minor leagues is a joke , while they have flaws, that I call out too, Flo brings wrestling to millions of people that would never have been able to see. They absolutely need to invest in upgrading there streams but take in account they are broadcasting from places like Wyoming. I’m not saying Cael didn’t complain but a lot of coaches were done with the national duels and the way it was trending, as a fan I would love for them to bring the duels back but I understand it from a coaches perspective too 

 

I believe duels are outlawed in most states. Except Iowa, of course.

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