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Cairowrestler

Iszmail Muszukajev ("Hungary")

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5 hours ago, Cairowrestler said:

The evidence strongly suggests the guy has improved his conditioning since he wrestled Yianni D, however, it’s still atrocious. He must have the worst Russian gas tank since Irkbek Farniev. It seems highly unlikely that a genetic defect causes him to gas out. It appears that many of the Russian transplants have shaky gas tanks. At least Adam Batirov can blame the fact he is almost 40. I recall watching video in the past showing many of the transplants training together with the national team members in Ossetia or Dagestan but I assume the transplants have far less overall training support than the Russian national team members.


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"overall training support"

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On 10/7/2019 at 10:03 AM, Housebuye said:

I think something we don't take into account enough is the genetic component. When they study long distance runners, they often times have genetic advantages that allow them to have better cardio. While wrestling cardio is different, I believe the same concept applies. 

It is like when we see high level D1 guys get tired. The vast majority of the time it has nothing to do with how hard they train. It could be that he just doesn't really have the lung capacity, heart capacity, etc (I don't know what I'm talking about with these examples) to be ready to go the whole 6 minutes. 

In the US, our style would never allow for a guy like that to make our team, so we aren't used to it. His style is terrible for facing Americans, even with his exceptional technique, speed and timing. We aren't used to it, so we think he just needs to work harder, but in reality I expect he trains pretty damn hard. 

It's possible that that may be part of it.  The first example that comes to my mind is Joe Heskett and how his heart condition went undiagnosed until after the 2007 World Championships.  After it was discovered I'm pretty sure his college coach Bobby Douglas said something to the effect that had he known he wouldn't have been so hard on him (Douglas always just assumed that Heskett wasn't training hard whenever he looked gassed).  But Heskett's case was both rare and extreme - if a credible source verifies that Muszukajev has a similar condition, I will cut him plenty of slack.  But even Heskett, despite this condition, never looked anywhere close to as gassed as Muszukajev did.  Genetics do play a part in it, but we always have some level of control over our conditioning, so a world-class athlete absolutely should have their conditioning at a respectable level.

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On 10/13/2019 at 10:50 PM, UsedToBe103 said:

It's possible that that may be part of it.  The first example that comes to my mind is Joe Heskett and how his heart condition went undiagnosed until after the 2007 World Championships.  After it was discovered I'm pretty sure his college coach Bobby Douglas said something to the effect that had he known he wouldn't have been so hard on him (Douglas always just assumed that Heskett wasn't training hard whenever he looked gassed).  But Heskett's case was both rare and extreme - if a credible source verifies that Muszukajev has a similar condition, I will cut him plenty of slack.  But even Heskett, despite this condition, never looked anywhere close to as gassed as Muszukajev did.  Genetics do play a part in it, but we always have some level of control over our conditioning, so a world-class athlete absolutely should have their conditioning at a respectable level.

This is way more common than you are suggesting. We don’t see it in the US as much as guys with bad gas tanks don’t make it very far in folkstyle. Bottom requires a huge amount of energy. 
  
I personally love top and bottom, as it played to my strengths and watching it is fun for me, but cardio plays a huge role in escaping 

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14 hours ago, Housebuye said:

This is way more common than you are suggesting. We don’t see it in the US as much as guys with bad gas tanks don’t make it very far in folkstyle. Bottom requires a huge amount of energy. 
  
I personally love top and bottom, as it played to my strengths and watching it is fun for me, but cardio plays a huge role in escaping 

You're definitely right about the different conditioning demands of folkstyle vs freestyle. You may be right about how common it is. Do you know what percent of the general population has defects which would impact cardiovascular capacity (obviously there will be a natural spread of variation among everyone, but I'm talking about genetic variations which would result in a significant impact)? I was just saying that Heskett's case was rare because that's the word Ohio State used to describe it at the time.

 

Regardless of how common it is, Muszukajev's laying on the mat between whistles contradicts the idea that wrestling requires one to be well conditioned (even freestyle and greco require above average conditioning). If I was showing some of those videos to a newbie I'd be embarrassed to tell them that's he's a world bronze medalist.  Even if it is really common, I still think a world class athlete, regardless of style or what country they're from, should strive to have respectable cardio.  That's all I'm trying to say.

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7 hours ago, UsedToBe103 said:

You're definitely right about the different conditioning demands of folkstyle vs freestyle. You may be right about how common it is. Do you know what percent of the general population has defects which would impact cardiovascular capacity (obviously there will be a natural spread of variation among everyone, but I'm talking about genetic variations which would result in a significant impact)? I was just saying that Heskett's case was rare because that's the word Ohio State used to describe it at the time.

 

Regardless of how common it is, Muszukajev's laying on the mat between whistles contradicts the idea that wrestling requires one to be well conditioned (even freestyle and greco require above average conditioning). If I was showing some of those videos to a newbie I'd be embarrassed to tell them that's he's a world bronze medalist.  Even if it is really common, I still think a world class athlete, regardless of style or what country they're from, should strive to have respectable cardio.  That's all I'm trying to say.

I think he is in lousy cardio shape... but some of it is gamesmanship too.  He somehow had the energy to to a couple backflips upon winning a match in which he appeared to be absolutely exhausted only seconds before.

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8 hours ago, UsedToBe103 said:

You're definitely right about the different conditioning demands of folkstyle vs freestyle. You may be right about how common it is. Do you know what percent of the general population has defects which would impact cardiovascular capacity (obviously there will be a natural spread of variation among everyone, but I'm talking about genetic variations which would result in a significant impact)? I was just saying that Heskett's case was rare because that's the word Ohio State used to describe it at the time.

 

Regardless of how common it is, Muszukajev's laying on the mat between whistles contradicts the idea that wrestling requires one to be well conditioned (even freestyle and greco require above average conditioning). If I was showing some of those videos to a newbie I'd be embarrassed to tell them that's he's a world bronze medalist.  Even if it is really common, I still think a world class athlete, regardless of style or what country they're from, should strive to have respectable cardio.  That's all I'm trying to say.

Yeah I hear you. It is embarrassing and he plays it up, which wouldn’t fly in the US

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