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irani

Cox in 86 Kg?

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Well in Kyle Snyder's post Bronze medal match he said that he wants to go to the ranking series tournament in January, and looking at UWW's schedule, the only ranking tourney in January is the Yarygin, (I have no idea why he didn't just say Yarygin ). But this may be a chance for Cox to try 97. 

But as I type this, I am of the opinion that Cox is going to go 86, the reason being I think he believes that he can beat David Taylor, where as SnyderMan is an unknown factor, as well as I believe SnyderMan has the seeding advantage in the OTT. 

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1 hour ago, de4856 said:

Well in Kyle Snyder's post Bronze medal match he said that he wants to go to the ranking series tournament in January, and looking at UWW's schedule, the only ranking tourney in January is the Yarygin, (I have no idea why he didn't just say Yarygin ). But this may be a chance for Cox to try 97. 

But as I type this, I am of the opinion that Cox is going to go 86, the reason being I think he believes that he can beat David Taylor, where as SnyderMan is an unknown factor, as well as I believe SnyderMan has the seeding advantage in the OTT. 

Snyder absolutely is not an unknown to Cox.

They have wrestled not only common opponents but each other many times.

Even in the last year.

And word is that Snyder didn't have much more him. Not saying much as there isn't anyone on the planet who would and Cox is known to be a very hard practicer.

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8 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Snyder absolutely is not an unknown to Cox.

They have wrestled not only common opponents but each other many times.

Even in the last year.

And word is that Snyder didn't have much more him. Not saying much as there isn't anyone on the planet who would and Cox is known to be a very hard practicer.

Word from who?

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17 hours ago, nhs67 said:

How do you mean?

I want the best version of Cox we can have. That is 97kg. He still gets a bye to the semi-finals of the challenge tourney.

That is huge.

Aren't all, or nearly all of Cox's losses at 86 as well?

And considering how depleted he was under the old weigh-in rules, he must know it'll be even worse in Tokyo.

97 seems like a no-brainer to me.

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46 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Aren't all, or nearly all of Cox's losses at 86 as well?

And considering how depleted he was under the old weigh-in rules, he must know it'll be even worse in Tokyo.

97 seems like a no-brainer to me.

He has 4 losses at 92 kg.  All before worlds last year.  That is the same number of losses to international opponents as he had in two years at 86kg.   In fact some of them he lost to at both weights like Marsagishvili and Sharifov. He is 0-2 against Sharifov, 0-1 against Alborov, 1-2 against Marsagichvili, and 0-1 against Boke. He avenged the losses to Marsgishvili at worlds last year.  His other loses at 86kg were to Yasar in the Olympics and Makoev at worlds.

Losses at 92kg listed below.

Sharif Sharifov 8-7

Dato Marsagishvili 0-5

Aslanbek Alborov 4-4

Serdar Boke 2-2

Edited by Fishbane

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14 hours ago, irani said:

Are there any tournaments where Cox could try to wrestle Snyder in 97 to see where he stands?

Not really.  Domestically neither has to compete until the Olympic trials because both are qualified.  It would have to be an international tournament that they both enter.  Possibly Henri Deglane, Ivan Yariguin, or Granma y Cerro Pelado in January or February next year.  I would think that he'd like to have made up his mind before then, because the Olympic Trials are the first weekend in April.  It is more realistic that he picks a tournament last this year or even goes to one of the domestic qualifiers to test out if competing at 86kg under the new weigh in rules in reasonable.  I am sure he has some idea of where he stands against Snyder.  They have wrestled at 97kg in 2015 and they meet in practice at the OTC.

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2 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

Not really.  Domestically neither has to compete until the Olympic trials because both are qualified.  It would have to be an international tournament that they both enter.  Possibly Henri Deglane, Ivan Yariguin, or Granma y Cerro Pelado in January or February next year.  I would think that he'd like to have made up his mind before then, because the Olympic Trials are the first weekend in April.  It is more realistic that he picks a tournament last this year or even goes to one of the domestic qualifiers to test out if competing at 86kg under the new weigh in rules in reasonable.  I am sure he has some idea of where he stands against Snyder.  They have wrestled at 97kg in 2015 and they meet in practice at the OTC.

Are there pan am games or the world cup before the Olympics or do they not have them during an Olympic year?

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11 minutes ago, irani said:

Are there pan am games or the world cup before the Olympics or do they not have them during an Olympic year?

Yes.  Pan Ams are the first weekend in March.  The World Cup is in October.  Only one entry per country at the Pan Ams so they can't both enter.  I don't think USAW has released the team selection criteria for that event, but I doubt they will have a wrestle off for the spot.  They will most likely go with the 2019 world team member at the spot and then down the national rankings from there if the world team member doesn't want to do it.  In 2016 they sent the previous world team members to the qualifier tournaments before the trials.

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/events

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nhs67, What I was trying to say, is that Cox (when considering matching up against SnyderMan), is probably not a 100% confident that he can beat him. 

According to a interview I saw, SnyderMan said that he likes to spar with J'den so I would probably suspect that these sessions are not lopsided in one way or another, but highly competitive, which makes think that J'den is constantly reminded that taking on SnyderMan and beating him is an unknown factor. 

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8 minutes ago, de4856 said:

nhs67, What I was trying to say, is that Cox (when considering matching up against SnyderMan), is probably not a 100% confident that he can beat him. 

According to a interview I saw, SnyderMan said that he likes to spar with J'den so I would probably suspect that these sessions are not lopsided in one way or another, but highly competitive, which makes think that J'den is constantly reminded that taking on SnyderMan and beating him is an unknown factor. 

I entirely understand and agree.

Neither is taking on a fully-healed fully-grown Taylor.

He has to like his odds. He's gotten a well enough feel for this year's #1s in Downey and Snyder.

This next crop of 86kg guys is just as deep, if not deeper(domestically). Very unproven, though

 2016 had the previous year's world teamer as like the 6 seed and I remember looking at the brackets and thinking that I wouldn't be surprised to see just about anyone come out of it. Even the two 74kg fellars that went by Dake and Taylor.

Edited by nhs67
Fat fingers...

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nhs67, yes, this is all just guesswork on my part, I have no idea what J'den thinks or has planned for the upcoming year. I did see that SnyderMan say in his post Bronze medal match that he wants to go to a ranking tournament in January, which when you look at the UWW's calendar,  is the Yarygin. So the reason I bring that up, is perhaps J'den can give this tourney a try, and perhaps give him an indication on what it's like to compete in 97. And since it's being held in January, J'den can make some revisions or new decisions on what he wants to do. If at that point he decides that he will go 86, he has four months to drop down. Or if it's 97, he has four months to get stronger. 

Then again, J'den might not even be focusing on SnyderMan, he might be thinking about Saduleav and Sharifov, and  what it will take to win the Gold Medal in Tokyo. 

Edited by de4856
Additional information

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20 minutes ago, de4856 said:

nhs67, yes, this is all just guesswork on my part, I have no idea what J'den thinks or has planned for the upcoming year. I did see that SnyderMan say in his post Bronze medal match that he wants to go to a ranking tournament in January, which when you look at the UWW's calendar,  is the Yarygin. So the reason I bring that up, is perhaps J'den can give this tourney a try, and perhaps give him an indication on what it's like to compete in 97. And since it's being held in January, J'den can make some revisions or new decisions on what he wants to do. If at that point he decides that he will go 86, he has four months to drop down. Or if it's 97, he has four months to get stronger. 

He likely has some idea of where he stands with Snyder based on their training together this past year. So I don't think it makes sense to wait and wrestle the Yarygin hoping to get a match with Snyder. I also don't know why some folks think he will be surprised by the strength difference at 97 kg. He wrestled there for a couple of years before dropping to 86. He knows full well what lies in front of him at either weight. A year ago I would have thought there is no way he goes 86 with day of weigh-ins, but given he's even contemplating it, makes me thinks he would prefer to go down if he thinks he can handle the cut.

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3 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

We’ll have an idea where Taylor stands in December at the US open. 

Taylor may be at the US Open.  Doing well there could get him a better seed for the Olympic Team trials.  He is already qualified for the OTT though so if he isn't fully healed and ready to roll he does not have to enter the US Open. 

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Well looking at David Taylor's Instagram posts, he looks like he's training and rehabbing well, so I have to think that he will be ready to go. My question is does he need to go to the US Open in December, or since he's a returning World medalist, does that automatically secure a spot for him at the OTT. But then as I type this I think that if he goes to the US Open, and wins that will he have a better position in the bracket or get to sit out until the finals at the OTT. 

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Would they give him a crap seed if he doesn't compete until the OTT?

Seems like they'd be sacrificing the bracket that way. I just don't see a way anyone not named Cox beats him and if they draw him in and he beats Ringer off the bat... it busts the bracket.

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8 hours ago, Fishbane said:

Yes.  Pan Ams are the first weekend in March.  The World Cup is in October.  Only one entry per country at the Pan Ams so they can't both enter.  I don't think USAW has released the team selection criteria for that event, but I doubt they will have a wrestle off for the spot.  They will most likely go with the 2019 world team member at the spot and then down the national rankings from there if the world team member doesn't want to do it.  In 2016 they sent the previous world team members to the qualifier tournaments before the trials.

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/events

I was thinking about this the other day. And if this happens as you stayed (world team member first to go to pan am qualifier) 86kg could potentially have Cox in the bottom bracket semi. Downey as the 1 seed by virtue of qualifying the weight, And Taylor also sitting at the bottom bracket as the 2/3 seed  

 

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Question. Does the winner of 86kg at the US open get the bye to the OTT finals?  If so, would it make since for JDen to go down for that and win the open?  Then get the OTT finals instead of semi's?  Also to see how he feels at the weight. If he doesn't feel right there would he be able to go up then?  Just wondering.

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6 hours ago, scramble said:

Question. Does the winner of 86kg at the US open get the bye to the OTT finals?  If so, would it make since for JDen to go down for that and win the open?  Then get the OTT finals instead of semi's?  Also to see how he feels at the weight. If he doesn't feel right there would he be able to go up then?  Just wondering.

No the winner of the US open does not get any kind of bye.  The only way to get a bye was to be a returning world medalist.  

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10 hours ago, de4856 said:

Well looking at David Taylor's Instagram posts, he looks like he's training and rehabbing well, so I have to think that he will be ready to go. My question is does he need to go to the US Open in December, or since he's a returning World medalist, does that automatically secure a spot for him at the OTT. But then as I type this I think that if he goes to the US Open, and wins that will he have a better position in the bracket or get to sit out until the finals at the OTT. 

He definitely does not need to go to the Open - All past World team members from 2017, 2018, or 2019 are already qualified.  Also any past World Team Trials Champion from those years is also qualified.  This last bit affects Nashon Garret. I don't recall any other WTT Champions who didn't end up on the World team.

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