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Cox in 86 Kg?

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4 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I'm not saying I'm in that camp. I'm saying that EVEN IF that were the situation, I'm not worried about 86 kg because even the proponents of principle will agree that one of two world champs should get a shot at qualifying their country versus a guy that would have failed multiple times by that point.

65 kg ... different situation.

Understood.  Fair point. 

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49 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

 

 

Honest question, why do you guys actually want Downey to be the guy at the qualifier?  Is that just based on principal, or do you legitimately think he's our best option?

In what you quoted me I said I would prefer Taylor got the nod, and in previous post said because PD’s results lead me to believe it doesn’t get qualified.  just can’t say Taylor gets screwed if Downey does, by virtue of being the #1

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45 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Obviously, nobody legitimately thinks he's our best option. Principle matters. That said, if we send Downey purely based on ladder placement, we should have the brains to send DT/Cox to the second one if he doesn't qualify us in the first try. Therefore, I'm not really worried about 86 kg.

65 kg, though .... whole different can of worms and cause for legitimate concern.

The winner of the trials goes to the last chance qualifier. That’s set in stone. This only pertains to the Pan Am

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4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

In what you quoted me I said I would prefer Taylor got the nod, and in previous post said because PD’s results lead me to believe it doesn’t get qualified.  just can’t say Taylor gets screwed if Downey does, by virtue of being the #1

Gotcha.  I thought you were insinuating that Downey deserves to be the rep because he was on the world team this year.  

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47 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Gotcha.  I thought you were insinuating that Downey deserves to be the rep because he was on the world team this year.  

Nah. Dogu, Yarigan, World Cup....yes. But this is an Olympic qualifier and, much like the Olympic trials, different procedures. 

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2 hours ago, Lurker said:

The winner of the trials goes to the last chance qualifier. That’s set in stone. This only pertains to the Pan Am

Thanks. That makes me feel even better about 86 kg. Still think 65 kg in a European last chance is not even close to a given no matter who we send. 

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22 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Thanks. That makes me feel even better about 86 kg. Still think 65 kg in a European last chance is not even close to a given no matter who we send. 

Absolutely. Pan Am is HUGE for 65

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9 hours ago, Fishbane said:

I would say Downey got screwed over if USAW just decides to send Cox to Taylor to the Pan Am Qualifier instead of him.  He won the world team trials at this weight.  That means he's the top guy on the ladder until the next trials.  He should get first crack at any tournament the US is sending a team to between Final X and the next trials/final X.  The same thing goes for Zain at 65kg, Fix at 57kg and Gwiz at 125.   If guys like Cox and Dake wanted more control in qualifying the weight they should have tried to get the spot at an Olympic weight this year.

I would agree Taylor maybe.  However, if a current defending world champ (Dake or Cox) were to get sent I think that would be a reasonable argument to send them over Downey.  Now, if they would not have placed at world's you I would agree, or even if it were bronze maybe.  I just think them getting a world title verse not getting in top five would be an understandable argument. 

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10 hours ago, Housebuye said:

This is where I wish we were more practical. Zain lost to the Cuban, so we should send Yianni. Zain has his chance fair and square. 

One could argue that Yianni had his chance fair and square, even had a second chance fair and square.  But I get what you're saying.  65 and 86 are totally different animals as the difference between 1 and 2 is razor razor thin at 65.....not so much at 86.  I guess where they are similar is that in both, the #2 has much better international results than the #1, and that goes to your point.

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20 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Potential hammers?  Mexico could have someone show up out of the woodwork that's already beaten our 2019 rep...

This story line is as entertaining, and as accurate, as the Snyder maybe moving up to 125 next year.....thing

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Just now, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I said potential.  Chances are slim to none, but stranger things have happened.  

I understand that.  There's potential for all kinds of things.  There's potential I could show up to the US Open in December.  But that's not going to happen.

I'm just laughing at the process of someone just pulling something out of their butt and typing it, and off it goes.  There has been nothing, zero, nada, come out from Snyder or Pico or either of their camps that these stories are actually being considered, but people keep talking about them as if there was.  So I was just making a little joke.  Pointless joke....

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46 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Are there any potential hammers besides Tobier at 65kg Pan Ams?

The only hammer I could think of would be if Gomez were to go back down.  I haven't heard anything at all saying he was, and not implying he is, but I've wondered.  I can't think of any others.

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It would be either Tobier or YBR if he can’t make 57. Possibly Gomez, but not likely.

The problem is only the finalists from Pan Ams qualify the weight, so our guy at 65 would ideally need to be placed on the opposite side of the bracket.

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Just now, pamela said:

It would be either Tobier or YBR if he can’t make 57. Possibly Gomez, but not likely.

The problem is only the finalists from Pan Ams qualify the weight, so our guy at 65 would ideally need to be placed on the opposite side of the bracket.

I think I read somewhere that they're going to seed that tournament... anyone know if that's true?

16 minutes ago, Lurker said:

The only hammer I could think of would be if Gomez were to go back down.  I haven't heard anything at all saying he was, and not implying he is, but I've wondered.  I can't think of any others.

Agreed, I don't think there are any serious contenders other than Tobier.  Colombia and DR I think have decent guys, but nobody that Yianni or Zain should be in jeopardy of losing to.  I mean... Colton McCrystal won Pan Am Championships at 65.  

 

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4 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I think I read somewhere that they're going to seed that tournament... anyone know if that's true?

Agreed, I don't think there are any serious contenders other than Tobier.  Colombia and DR I think have decent guys, but nobody that Yianni or Zain should be in jeopardy of losing to.  I mean... Colton McCrystal won Pan Am Championships at 65.  

 

Yes I'm pretty sure they are seeding all qualifiers.  I believe they are going to start doing that at the ranking tournaments too. seed to four I think is what I saw

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Hmmm... if they seed Pan Ams he same way they seed Worlds I think Eierman, Yianni and JO are our only guys at 65 who could get a 2 or 3 seed right now. Not 100% sure but I don’t think Zain has the ranking points to get seeded.

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21 minutes ago, pamela said:

Hmmm... if they seed Pan Ams he same way they seed Worlds I think Eierman, Yianni and JO are our only guys at 65 who could get a 2 or 3 seed right now. Not 100% sure but I don’t think Zain has the ranking points to get seeded.

That's what I haven't heard....how are they seeding it.  To be honest, don't know that any of the 65's at Pan Am have the ranking points, Tobier included?

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8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

That's what I haven't heard....how are they seeding it.  To be honest, don't know that any of the 65's at Pan Am have the ranking points, Tobier included?

Ohhh I figured at least Tobier and Eierman for medaling at this year’s Pan Ams. Maybe Yianni and JO for their placement at this year’s ranking tournaments. There’s not much else to base the seedings on for next year, so I agree that the methodology is a big question mark rn.

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What about the "other" Gomez, from ISU?  There were rumors he was going to wrestle for Mexico and he probably can't make 57.   He is pretty darn good at free and wrestling and has an unorthodox style.

Heck, let's go full tinfoil - Storr of Michigan is Olympic Redshirting.  It's Michigan, maybe he shows up for Belize, Suriname or something like that. 

Edited by Gantry

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18 hours ago, Gantry said:

What about the "other" Gomez, from ISU?  There were rumors he was going to wrestle for Mexico and he probably can't make 57.   He is pretty darn good at free and wrestling and has an unorthodox style.

Heck, let's go full tinfoil - Storr of Michigan is Olympic Redshirting.  It's Michigan, maybe he shows up for Belize, Suriname or something like that. 

If you want to worry about a Gomez screwing up our chances to qualify 65kg at the Pam Ams it is more likely that Franklin starts training himself back down to 65kg and throws the monkey wrench in the works than it is that Austin could so.

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On 10/4/2019 at 7:43 AM, Lurker said:

One could argue that Yianni had his chance fair and square, even had a second chance fair and square.  But I get what you're saying.  65 and 86 are totally different animals as the difference between 1 and 2 is razor razor thin at 65.....not so much at 86.  I guess where they are similar is that in both, the #2 has much better international results than the #1, and that goes to your point.

Exactly. 

I like that our system is fair. Nobody actually thought Downey was our best 86kg, but nobody seriously considered removing him from the spot. He earned it. Sure, there was a fair amount of luck at play, but that is fine. Props to Downey for capitalizing on the situation. 

In this case, sending Yianni could actually be more fair. Zain earned his legitimate spot. He then lost. It is perfectly fair for Yianni to go to pan ams

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