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Jimmy Cinnabon

With these recruits is it "do or die" time for John Smith?

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OK State's 2020 recruiting class is HUGE.  Two number 1 recruits in Ferrari and Plott, two number 2s in Burks and Mastrogiovanni and a number 3 in Surber and number 6 in Doucet.  That is loaded.  They already have studs in Piccinnini, Kaid Brock, Daton Fix, Gfeller, Lewallen, Smith, Wittlake, Sheets, Montalvo and Geer.  If John Smith doesn't win a team title in the next year or 2 does he gracefully get shown the door?  I know the answer is most likely "never" but it has been ages since OK State has won a title and now they have a LOADED recruiting class so what excuses would be left?

 

120: Alex Yokubaitis of Lake Charles, LA (Not ranked)

120: Jakason Burks of Omaha (Burke), NEB (No. 2)

120: Trevor Mastrogiovanni of Blair in NJ (No. 2)

152: Luke Surber of Tuttle, OK (No. 3)

170: Dustin Plott of Tuttle, OK (No. 1)

195: AJ Ferrari of Allen, TX (No. 1)

220: Konner Doucet of Comanche, OK (No. 6)

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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18 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Only Piccinni, Brock, Lewallen, Smith will be gone after this season.  Fix, Gfeller, Wittalek, Sheets, Montalvo and Geer will still be around.

Brock will probably get another year and finish in the 2020-2021 season.  This could allow Gfeller to go back up to 149.  I wonder how bad the cut to 141 will be for him this year?.

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1 hour ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

OK State's 2020 recruiting class is HUGE.  Two number 1 recruits in Ferrari and Plott, two number 2s in Burks and Mastrogiovanni and a number 3 in Surber and number 6 in Doucet.  That is loaded.  They already have studs in Piccinnini, Kaid Brock, Daton Fix, Gfeller, Lewallen, Smith, Wittlake, Sheets, Montalvo and Geer.  If John Smith doesn't win a team title in the next year or 2 does he gracefully get shown the door?  I know the answer is most likely "never" but it has been ages since OK State has won a title and now they have a LOADED recruiting class so what excuses would be left?

 

120: Alex Yokubaitis of Lake Charles, LA (Not ranked)

120: Jakason Burks of Omaha (Burke), NEB (No. 2)

120: Trevor Mastrogiovanni of Blair in NJ (No. 2)

152: Luke Surber of Tuttle, OK (No. 3)

170: Dustin Plott of Tuttle, OK (No. 1)

195: AJ Ferrari of Allen, TX (No. 1)

220: Konner Doucet of Comanche, OK (No. 6)

What an idiotic post.

Your statement is that the great 2020 recruits mean he should be fired if he doesn't win in 2020 (before they arrive) or in 2021 (their first year on campus).  

I know your goal is trolling and not actual wrestling discussion, but at least troll semi-intelligently.  

But for the sake of discussion, if he doesn't win by the time Fix leaves (3-4 years depending on ORS) then he will never win and should be moved out.  

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Iowa has Gable-era fans with sky high expectations who don’t think Brands is on the hot seat at all. Smith has arguably produced a similar range of results, still pulls big name recruits, puts seats in the stands, gets along with his AD, manages a solid APR and has lower expectations from his fanbase and he’d be on the hot seat why? Oh also he’s a 6 time world/Olympic medalist, hall of fame inductee, had a Hodge winner just a few seasons ago and owns the Big 12 & Oklahoma. Now I see why you’re asking.

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20 minutes ago, pamela said:

Iowa has Gable-era fans with sky high expectations who don’t think Brands is on the hot seat at all. Smith has arguably produced a similar range of results, still pulls big name recruits, puts seats in the stands, gets along with his AD, manages a solid APR and has lower expectations from his fanbase and he’d be on the hot seat why? Oh also he’s a 6 time world/Olympic medalist, hall of fame inductee, had a Hodge winner just a few seasons ago and owns the Big 12 & Oklahoma. Now I see why you’re asking.

Yet with all those credentials + killer recruiting classes you don't find it reasonable to expect a team title in the next 3-4 years?

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Yet with all those credentials + killer recruiting classes you don't find it reasonable to expect a team title in the next 3-4 years?

Reasonable for who to expect a team title?

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3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

For fans of Oklahoma State wrestling

Again, if Iowa’s fans have higher expectations but don’t think Brands is on the hot seat, why would OSU fans put Smith on the hot seat if his results are similar?

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12 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Yet with all those credentials + killer recruiting classes you don't find it reasonable to expect a team title in the next 3-4 years?

You’ve already doubled your time frame and we haven’t even gotten to the second page yet. 

I think this relates back to what @boconnell was saying. 

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Current rosters with FLO's top 25 big board recruits:

Penn State-...............1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,11,12,20,20,22

OH St-.......................1,4,4,5,9,10,10,15,16,22,24

Okie St.......................1,6,7,10,15,24,24,25

Iowa..........................2,3,7,9,13,16,17,21

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Tommy Chesboro won only 1 title in 15 years at the helm. And he took over when they were defending champs and had won seven of the last ten. How was he able to stay long enough to become OSU’s winningest coach (dual meet wins, until Smith came along)?  Because everyone knew what was going on at Iowa and how hard a title was to come by. 

Same thing happening now. And Smith has six more world titles and four more ncaa team titles on his resume. So no  he’s not in the hot seat, until he wants to get off the seat. 

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9 minutes ago, pamela said:

Again, if Iowa’s fans have higher expectations but don’t think Brands is on the hot seat, why would OSU fans put Smith on the hot seat if his results are similar?

Ok, so you're saying it's unreasonable to expect that.  Got it.

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Ok, so how many years before it's reasonable to expect a title?  7-8 years?

I’m not an Okie fan so I won’t try to speak for them. But I think it’s pretty obvious he’s not anywhere close to a hot seat. 

Edited by Lurker

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15 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I disagree with your assumption that Iowa fans have higher expectations.  False equivalency.  Also, Ok State has better recruits than Iowa.

Just because you don’t agree automatically makes it false?  Interesting. 

For sake of argument let’s say expectations are about the same (which is probably accurate).  Very safe to say patience at Iowa is a little more thin than at Okie State. And there’s historical evidence to support it. But yet Brands doesn’t find himself on the hot seat. 

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14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Just because you don’t agree automatically makes it false?  Interesting. 

For sake of argument let’s say expectations are about the same (which is probably accurate).  Very safe to say patience at Iowa is a little more thin than at Okie State. And there’s historical evidence to support it. But yet Brands doesn’t find himself on the hot seat. 

the transitive property does not apply in sports, you should know that.  the same is true of fanbases.

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2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

the transitive property does not apply in sports, you should know that.  the same is true of fanbases.

Good try.

It’s not a matter of transitive property. Okie state fans will not be wrestling against Iowa fans, nor will they be competing against a third fan base that would then bring the transitive property into play. It’s a comparison. A valid one. and as I said one that has historical evidence to support it.

Try again. 

Edited by Lurker

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Cael is having Gable-esque type of success.  I remember how helpless it seemed back then.  OSU actually won a few huge duals against those great Iowa Teams, but then got Gabled at the big dance.  Cael is the only guy I've seen that is as dominant as those Iowa teams.  I started wrestling in 1970.  I want John to win a title or two more and leave on a great run.  I believe it is possible even as great as Cael's boys are, but very difficult.  In fact, who the heck is out there that could even remotely attract wrestlers like John Smith.

 

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8 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Ok, so how many years before it's reasonable to expect a title?  7-8 years?

Maybe there’s no time limit.  If he continues to get good recruits, they have results on the mat and graduate as students. Sometimes it’s reasonable to expect that there may not be a better option available for the foreseeable future unless his name is Sanderson.   So be happy with what you’ve got.

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10 hours ago, pamela said:

Iowa has Gable-era fans with sky high expectations who don’t think Brands is on the hot seat at all.

Because there arent any coaches coming on the market that improves Iowa's position. When you are consistently finishing top 3, upgrade options are limited. However, there are plenty of opportunities to fall down to Iowa State status under KJ. 

Same thing under Smith. Who do you replace him with and consider it a guaranteed upgrade? 

Edited by russelscout

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