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Jimmy Cinnabon

With these recruits is it "do or die" time for John Smith?

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37 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Ed Ruth had never heard of Cael before wrestling for him.

I've read numerous accounts, some even Ruth quotes, of Taylor trying to get Ruth to decommit and sign with Iowa State, before they moved to PSU. So you think in those conversations, Sanderson's name never came up?  

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1 hour ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Nope.  Someone asserted there are no better options out there to replace a GOAT like Smith.  I'm saying kids these days are more likely to connect with a younger star they have actually seen wrestle.  They've seen guys like Snyder or Dake wrestle this year. They likely haven't watched a video (if it even exists) of John Smith wrestling in the 1987 World Championships.

You started a thread about Smith's recruiting class being so good he should be fired if he doesn't win a title with them.  

Then you said recruits don't know who he is and they should replace him with a younger guy who can recruit better.

Do you realize how dumb and contradictory those statements are?  

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5 minutes ago, boconnell said:

You started a thread about Smith's recruiting class being so good he should be fired if he doesn't win a title with them.  

Then you said recruits don't know who he is and they should replace him with a younger guy who can recruit better.

Do you realize how dumb and contradictory those statements are?  

They aren't contradictory at all.  Read what you wrote again and think about it for 5 minutes.

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On 10/4/2019 at 1:12 PM, Lurker said:

It's another lie, as is about Ruth.  Jenkins (again quoted) was initially pretty excited about Sanderson coming to Penn State.

Well I had heard that about Ruth. I always assumed it was because  he was a bit of a late bloomer in the sport until he got to blair. Most elite recruits I have been around are usually surrounded by the sport so much they all had a pretty good grasp of the history. 

I had never heard that about Jenkins.

Edited by russelscout

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Well I had heard that about Ruth. I always assumed it was because  he was a bit of a late bloomer in the sport until he got to blair. Most elite recruits I have been around are usually so surrounded by the sport that they all had a pretty good grasp of the history. 

I had never heard that about Jenkins.

I have heard people claim that.  (But I've also heard people claim Snyder might go to 125, and Pico might wrestle for Mexico)  But the fact that taylor was trying to get him to iowa state the year before....I mean.....on just that alone you kind of got to think he had probably heard of Sanderson before he arrived at PSU.  Didn't KNOW him....sure.  Know of him.....come on.

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Just now, Lurker said:

I have heard people claim that.  (But I've also heard people claim Snyder might go to 125, and Pico might wrestle for Mexico)  But the fact that taylor was trying to get him to iowa state the year before....I mean.....on just that alone you kind of got to think he had probably heard of Sanderson before he arrived at PSU.  Didn't KNOW him....sure.  Know of him.....come on.

It's interesting how you can so confidently label a well known anecdote (about Ruth) a lie.  How exactly do you know for sure that it's a lie? All evidence I have read supports that it is a fact - Ed was quoted as saying something like "I didn't know who he [Cael] was but he beat me so he must be pretty good."

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3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

It's interesting how you can so confidently label a well known anecdote (about Ruth) a lie.  How exactly do you know for sure that it's a lie? All evidence I have read supports that it is a fact - Ed was quoted as saying something like "I didn't know who he [Cael] was but he beat me so he must be pretty good."

I'll use exact quotes, instead of "something like"

Ed Ruth, Penn State wrestler (2011-2014): [Taylor] almost got me [to commit to Iowa State in the first place]. He was really convincing. I was like, “Oh man. Oh geez.” He was like, “Don’t you want to reach your full potential?” I was like, “Yeah, I really do.” Everything he said, he made me believe it.

Taylor: I just remember saying, “Man, you know how good we could’ve been if we were on the same team?” It turned out I was on [Ed Ruth’s] team.

 

 

But yes, I'm sure Ruth had no idea who the man at the helm of the school they were talking about was.  That low profile, four time undefeated champ and olympic champ.

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7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'll use exact quotes, instead of "something like"

Ed Ruth, Penn State wrestler (2011-2014): [Taylor] almost got me [to commit to Iowa State in the first place]. He was really convincing. I was like, “Oh man. Oh geez.” He was like, “Don’t you want to reach your full potential?” I was like, “Yeah, I really do.” Everything he said, he made me believe it.

Taylor: I just remember saying, “Man, you know how good we could’ve been if we were on the same team?” It turned out I was on [Ed Ruth’s] team.

 

 

But yes, I'm sure Ruth had no idea who the man at the helm of the school they were talking about was.  That low profile, four time undefeated champ and olympic champ.

That quote doesn't say anything about Cael or show that Ed knew who Cael was.  You are just speculating.

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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28 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Ed was quoted as saying something like "I didn't know who he [Cael] was but he beat me so he must be pretty good."

Do you have the actually quote? It is strange to see you speculate what the quote may have been, but also use quotes as if that is exactly what he said.

 

12 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

That quote doesn't say anything about Cael or show that Ed knew who Cael was.  You are just speculating.

You think Ed considered going to IA state without actually having any knowledge of who the coach was. That seems like a stretch. 

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8 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

That quote doesn't say anything about Cael or show that Ed knew who Cael was.  You are just speculating.

I guess you are right.  I guess the fact that they were recruiting Ruth to Iowa State, that Taylor, who absolutely idolized Sanderson and talked to Ruth a good bit about joining him at Iowa State, says nothing at all to whether or not Ruth knew who Sanderson was before he got to PSU.  

Incidentally, in that search I did to pull those quotes for you, there were a number of articles about the move, detailing their first conversation, first meeting, first time working out together, nowhere was there even a blurb about Ruth not knowing who Sanderson was before he got to Penn State. A lot of Ruth quotes about Sanderson, a lot of Sanderson quotes about Ruth.  But nada.  So where is this mound of evidence you have that supports your stance?

Edited by Lurker

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37 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I guess you are right.  I guess the fact that they were recruiting Ruth to Iowa State, that Taylor, who absolutely idolized Sanderson and talked to Ruth a good bit about joining him at Iowa State, says nothing at all to whether or not Ruth knew who Sanderson was before he got to PSU.  

Incidentally, in that search I did to pull those quotes for you, there were a number of articles about the move, detailing their first conversation, first meeting, first time working out together, nowhere was there even a blurb about Ruth not knowing who Sanderson was before he got to Penn State. A lot of Ruth quotes about Sanderson, a lot of Sanderson quotes about Ruth.  But nada.  So where is this mound of evidence you have that supports your stance?

You take very black and white positions regarding whether something is a true or a lie.  The fact is, despite what you say...you don't know anything for a FACT.  Speculation.

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6 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

You take very black and white positions regarding whether something is a true or a lie.  The fact is, despite what you say...you don't know anything for a FACT.  Speculation.

It's not what I said, it's what Taylor and Ruth said.  That's why I provided you with direct quotes instead of "something like".  You can speculate that an elite HS wrestler was seriously considering going to a school without having ever heard of their head coach, who just happens to be the greatest college wrestler ever,  if you want, thats fine. And since you dodged the question I'll ask again, where is this mound of evidence you were telling me about? I mean this is your claim that we are arguing about after all.  Should be very easy for you to pull at least a little nugget of all this evidence.  While you're at it, show us the Bubba Jenkins quotes as well.

Edited by Lurker

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"They’ll be talking about Sanderson, too, who has turned Penn State from a traditionally strong program into a powerhouse, winning the past three NCAA titles. He couldn’t have done it without Taylor, who had committed to Iowa State when Sanderson coached there but got a release to follow Sanderson to Penn State, or without Ruth, who had been recruited by former coach Troy Sunderland and who swears he didn’t even know who Sanderson was (“the guy whose name is on my shoes …”) but decided, of course, to stay."

https://pennstatermag.com/tag/cael-sanderson/

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I didn't read all of the posts but to answer the OP, no... Why is everything immediate gratification or immediate dismissal.  It's John freaking Smith.  Do or die?  For real?  John Smith defines his legacy, tenure, whatever,, just like Gable and Cael.  

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As an OSU fan, John Smith gets to write his own ending at OSU. He's certainly earned that... and, frankly, even with the lack of titles over the last 15 years it's not like OSU is putting up duds at NCAAs every year. I think the average finish since Cael went to Penn State is 3. Still getting top recruiting classes, even without a fancy facility. Still putting out incredible coaches across the country and helping to grow the sport. 

 

John Smith will not be fired from OSU. It's a ridiculous assertion. 

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On 10/3/2019 at 4:44 PM, pamela said:

Again, if Iowa’s fans have higher expectations but don’t think Brands is on the hot seat, why would OSU fans put Smith on the hot seat if his results are similar?

Because Brands is a whackjob, fun, and entertaining. John Smith is about as fun as gout. Plus OSU's results have dramatically dropped off from  years ago, they are seemingly never in the actual hunt for an NCAA team title these days, but Iowa has their best team in years. OSU seems like it's always a "next year" type team, these days. 

For the record I like John Smith, but I also think OSU needs new blood, they need a new approach. Cael's boys obviously have a blast wrestling for him, Branch's guys seem to like their insane coach, but you never read stories about OSU having fun in the room. That's a problem, plus I think John burned a lot of goodwill last year with his preference of his son over Chandler Rogers. 

Edited by TobusRex

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On 10/4/2019 at 1:13 PM, boconnell said:

You started a thread about Smith's recruiting class being so good he should be fired if he doesn't win a title with them.  

Then you said recruits don't know who he is and they should replace him with a younger guy who can recruit better.

Do you realize how dumb and contradictory those statements are?  

Can we impeach Cinnabutt?

If we try will Mitt Romney come to his defense?

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