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I think Mendez is going to be good.  He is a couple years younger than Serrano, Jack and Van Ness.  He got out wrestled in a few key spots and was over aggressive a few times but he gets after it.  Has some nolf in him

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On 10/6/2019 at 8:52 AM, TBar1977 said:

Echemendia looked fantastic. Probably the best wrestler last nite. Can't wait to see him go against a top 5 college wrestler. 

If you wrestled last nite you are obviously very good, but one guy disappointed in the sense I thought he would be better. Alex Facundo. Is he the next Logan Massa? The guy others are catching up to and passing? Credit to Kennedy for his wrestling last night.

Until he got the stick, I thought Voinovich looked worse.

Maybe because I'm a big fan, I expected to see more on his feet, and on bottom, but he looked off in both positions.

Was actually surprised he chose folkstyle, as he's a really good freestyler, but at least his top wrestling was beyond impressive.

That said, given Facundo's credentials and the expectations surrounding him, the Kennedy loss was very surprising.  Facundo is clearly a phenomenal athlete, but Kennedy got to his legs quite often, and finished a couple of them.

Meanwhile, I don't think Facundo got past Kennedy's head/hands once.

Iowa fans should be thrilled at the Kennedy signing, as he looks like a potential 4x AA/multiple time finalist.

Finally, Echemendia looks like he could give Zain & Yianni good matches right now, and I think I favor him at 141 next March if he wrestles second semester.

Edited by whaletail
wording

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Echemendia man... kid is a beast.  Still haven't seen him get challenged.  Also doing his post-match interviews in English and doing a pretty good job of it.  

There were a number of other guys that were impressive.  

O'Toole is just a winner. That kid always finds a way.  

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25 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Echemendia man... kid is a beast.  Still haven't seen him get challenged.  Also doing his post-match interviews in English and doing a pretty good job of it.  

There were a number of other guys that were impressive.  

O'Toole is just a winner. That kid always finds a way.  

Agreed on both counts.

If I'm not mistaken, O'Toole bumped up to wrestle Gallagher, and even looked slightly overmatched early.  But he can initiate, and win scrambles like a 103 pounder, and his technique is fundamentally sound.  Was really impressed with him, and his post-race comments.  Definitely expect great things from him at Missouri.

As for Echemendia, if he took the SAT Saturday morning (though I wonder why he didn't take the TOEFL), doesn't that suggest ISU's trying to get him second semester eligible?

I had no idea he was even considering college wrestling, or how ISU got him, but if he ends up wrestling 141 next March, I think he dominates.  As I think about it, with so much Figueroa interest nationally, I'm a little surprised he was able to remain under the radar wrestling at Sunnyside last year.  They're a national powerhouse, and his back story (not to mention his wrestling) is so amazing, you'd think word would have spread quickly.  And with ASU signing Figueroa, and so on the rise in their right (not to mention, close to "home"), surely Zeke must have known of him prior to Fargo?

And good lord, even against sub-par competition, his wrestling chops would be immediately obvious.

I'm really interested in hearing his entire story, and learning about youth wrestling in Cuba (do they even send teams to Cadets & Juniors).

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20 hours ago, Gantry said:

So Massa has been injured for 2+ years now?  Not being a smart alec, legitimate question. 

I think so.

Perhaps he's suffered multiple injuries, but if IIRC, it was a knee his sophomore year.  I don't recall him missing any matches that year (or last year) as a result, so it must not have been a ligament tear, but he certainly hasn't ever looked as explosive as he did his freshman year.

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if other issues played a role in his regression.  Whether his peers "figured him out", or personal issues have been distracting, I don't know, but a two year injury, that was never acute enough to force him out of the lineup, yet still compromised him as significantly as he has been, seems a bit odd.

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2 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I think so.

Perhaps he's suffered multiple injuries, but if IIRC, it was a knee his sophomore year.  I don't recall him missing any matches that year (or last year) as a result, so it must not have been a ligament tear, but he certainly hasn't ever looked as explosive as he did his freshman year.

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if other issues played a role in his regression.  Whether his peers "figured him out", or personal issues have been distracting, I don't know, but a two year injury, that was never acute enough to force him out of the lineup, yet still compromised him as significantly as he has been, seems a bit odd.

He missed much of the season after Vegas when he hurt his knee during his sophomore year. 

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1 hour ago, whaletail said:

Until he got the stick, I thought Voinovich looked worse.

Maybe because I'm a big fan, I expected to see more on his feet, and on bottom, but he looked off in both positions.

Was actually surprised he chose folkstyle, as he's a really good freestyler, but at least his top wrestling was beyond impressive.

That said, given Facundo's credentials and the expectations surrounding him, the Kennedy loss was very surprising.  Facundo is clearly a phenomenal athlete, but Kennedy got to his legs quite often, and finished a couple of them.

Meanwhile, I don't think Facundo got past Kennedy's head/hands once.

Iowa fans should be thrilled at the Kennedy signing, as he looks like a potential 4x AA/multiple time finalist.

Finally, Echemendia looks like he could give Zain & Yianni good matches right now, and I think I favor him at 141 next March if he wrestles second semester.

One thing to consider in Facundo-Kennedy is that Facundo wasn't just coming up from 160, he wrestled 71kg, which us 156lbs while Kennedy was coming down from 182lbs.

That and consider styles. Kennedy is a beast physically in every way. Facundo, while athletic, has always relied on defense with flexibility and not speed. I believe Facundo intends to make 86kg his home once he starts going the seniot route. Let him fill out a bit and gain his adult frame and the results will follow.

Kennedy is as college ready for 174, physically, as any 2020 graduate. He fits the Marinelli style mold, so Iowa is a great fit for him.

 

Edited by nhs67
Fat fingers...

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2 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Agreed on both counts.

If I'm not mistaken, O'Toole bumped up to wrestle Gallagher, and even looked slightly overmatched early.  But he can initiate, and win scrambles like a 103 pounder, and his technique is fundamentally sound.  Was really impressed with him, and his post-race comments.  Definitely expect great things from him at Missouri.

As for Echemendia, if he took the SAT Saturday morning (though I wonder why he didn't take the TOEFL), doesn't that suggest ISU's trying to get him second semester eligible?

I had no idea he was even considering college wrestling, or how ISU got him, but if he ends up wrestling 141 next March, I think he dominates.  As I think about it, with so much Figueroa interest nationally, I'm a little surprised he was able to remain under the radar wrestling at Sunnyside last year.  They're a national powerhouse, and his back story (not to mention his wrestling) is so amazing, you'd think word would have spread quickly.  And with ASU signing Figueroa, and so on the rise in their right (not to mention, close to "home"), surely Zeke must have known of him prior to Fargo?

And good lord, even against sub-par competition, his wrestling chops would be immediately obvious.

I'm really interested in hearing his entire story, and learning about youth wrestling in Cuba (do they even send teams to Cadets & Juniors).

Echemendia and Zeke met in Cuba when ASU's team visited--he was well aware.  I think part of the reason he stayed under the radar is because nobody expected him to be bound for NCAA wrestling, and there was an understood that if he does it'll be at ASU. The fact that it became a more open recruiting process was a bit of a shock.  

Whether he can step in and dominate right away I don't know... I want to see him wrestle more folkstyle first.  But his strength, athleticism, and positioning are all outstanding, and those translate to any style. 

The only person that's beaten Saunders that bad is Pletcher.  If we can do a little transitive property there, it doesn't seem absurd to suggest he's in the same realm as Pletcher, and if he is he's certainly in the title conversation.  

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26 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Echemendia and Zeke met in Cuba when ASU's team visited--he was well aware.  I think part of the reason he stayed under the radar is because nobody expected him to be bound for NCAA wrestling, and there was an understood that if he does it'll be at ASU. The fact that it became a more open recruiting process was a bit of a shock.  

Whether he can step in and dominate right away I don't know... I want to see him wrestle more folkstyle first.  But his strength, athleticism, and positioning are all outstanding, and those translate to any style. 

The only person that's beaten Saunders that bad is Pletcher.  If we can do a little transitive property there, it doesn't seem absurd to suggest he's in the same realm as Pletcher, and if he is he's certainly in the title conversation.  

I think Echemendia will be ready to win it all in March this year, mainly because of how weak 141 is. He’s so athletic and powerful I just don’t see him getting ridden and turned enough for that to be a full blown Achilles heel. He’s already got more than a year of folkstyle under his belt so it’s not like he’s starting from scratch. With the quality of the middleweight coaches and partners in the ISU room I think he’ll have enough bottom technique come March to do just fine.

Of course that assumes none of the Olympic RS guys come back 2nd semester and none of the 133 hammers like Gross change their minds and move up to 141. As good as I think he’ll be by March I don’t think he’ll be anywhere close to Yianni’s or Gross’s level in folk...or Eirerman.
 

 

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Massa hasn't been the same since his knee injury, I do think that took a lot out of him. His older brother was also a stud recruit who didn't pan out in college though, so maybe he could be focused on more than one thing? Pretty sure Marinelli has had a torn ligament the last two seasons that hasn't kept him from competing so there are examples of guys able to tough it out through some pretty serious damage. 

Agree on the Kennedy/Marinelli comparison and do think Iowa is a great fit for the guy. He is going to be a good one to watch

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

I think Echemendia will be ready to win it all in March this year, mainly because of how weak 141 is. He’s so athletic and powerful I just don’t see him getting ridden and turned enough for that to be a full blown Achilles heel. He’s already got more than a year of folkstyle under his belt so it’s not like he’s starting from scratch. With the quality of the middleweight coaches and partners in the ISU room I think he’ll have enough bottom technique come March to do just fine.

Of course that assumes none of the Olympic RS guys come back 2nd semester and none of the 133 hammers like Gross change their minds and move up to 141. As good as I think he’ll be by March I don’t think he’ll be anywhere close to Yianni’s or Gross’s level in folk...or Eirerman.
 

 

I would consider Demas and Nick Lee "to be close" to Yianni and I would say even money with Gross were he to move up.  141 is missing 2 studs but still has a lot of talent especially with Leeth moving down (hope he stays healthy) and Wilson moving up.  That being said I think Enchemendia will be a great addition to the talent pool and could be in the mix.  

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4 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I would consider Demas and Nick Lee "to be close" to Yianni and I would say even money with Gross were he to move up.  141 is missing 2 studs but still has a lot of talent especially with Leeth moving down (hope he stays healthy) and Wilson moving up.  That being said I think Enchemendia will be a great addition to the talent pool and could be in the mix.  

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree that Nick Lee and Don Demas are even money with Seth Gross. That’s of course assuming that Gross is healthy and he put on the weight to be an actual 141 pounder. In other words not like last time he went Hodge chasing and bumped up to 141 to wrestle Merideth but wrestled 133 the week before and the week after that dual. 

I think his year away from the sport has made people forget how good Gross was the last time we saw him. The last folk match he wrestled he absolutely dominated Micic in the NCAA finals for 2 periods before completely shutting it down in the 3rd and still won 13-8. Earlier in that same tournament he also beat McKee 13-5...and Flo has McKee ranked #3 at 141 this season.

Demas had a good tournament last March, but he also got beat by 9 different guys last season, including Ryan Pomrinca and Ben Freeman. He’s also maybe the most one dimensional ranked NCAA wrestler going into 2020. I doubt any wrestler in the nation scored as many points from any move last year as Demas did from his inside trip. He’ll be scouted a LOT more going into this year and I’d be shocked if he had anywhere near the same statistical success with it against elite competition. 

Don’t mean to be too negative on Demas...fun guy to watch, but I just don’t think he’s on the same level as Gross.

 

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5 hours ago, whaletail said:

 

As for Echemendia, if he took the SAT Saturday morning (though I wonder why he didn't take the TOEFL), doesn't that suggest ISU's trying to get him second semester eligible?

TOEFL and SAT are completely different tests that measure different things. One is a test of English proficiency for foreign students. The other is a test of general aptitude. One would not take the place of the other. 

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2 hours ago, MDogg said:

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree that Nick Lee and Don Demas are even money with Seth Gross. That’s of course assuming that Gross is healthy and he put on the weight to be an actual 141 pounder. In other words not like last time he went Hodge chasing and bumped up to 141 to wrestle Merideth but wrestled 133 the week before and the week after that dual. 

I think his year away from the sport has made people forget how good Gross was the last time we saw him. The last folk match he wrestled he absolutely dominated Micic in the NCAA finals for 2 periods before completely shutting it down in the 3rd and still won 13-8. Earlier in that same tournament he also beat McKee 13-5...and Flo has McKee ranked #3 at 141 this season.

Demas had a good tournament last March, but he also got beat by 9 different guys last season, including Ryan Pomrinca and Ben Freeman. He’s also maybe the most one dimensional ranked NCAA wrestler going into 2020. I doubt any wrestler in the nation scored as many points from any move last year as Demas did from his inside trip. He’ll be scouted a LOT more going into this year and I’d be shocked if he had anywhere near the same statistical success with it against elite competition. 

Don’t mean to be too negative on Demas...fun guy to watch, but I just don’t think he’s on the same level as Gross.

 

Hughes at 165 for MSU has top game. That is it. If we're talking ranked then he is my guy as most one dimensional guy.

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3 hours ago, MDogg said:

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree that Nick Lee and Don Demas are even money with Seth Gross. That’s of course assuming that Gross is healthy and he put on the weight to be an actual 141 pounder. In other words not like last time he went Hodge chasing and bumped up to 141 to wrestle Merideth but wrestled 133 the week before and the week after that dual. 

I think his year away from the sport has made people forget how good Gross was the last time we saw him. The last folk match he wrestled he absolutely dominated Micic in the NCAA finals for 2 periods before completely shutting it down in the 3rd and still won 13-8. Earlier in that same tournament he also beat McKee 13-5...and Flo has McKee ranked #3 at 141 this season.

Demas had a good tournament last March, but he also got beat by 9 different guys last season, including Ryan Pomrinca and Ben Freeman. He’s also maybe the most one dimensional ranked NCAA wrestler going into 2020. I doubt any wrestler in the nation scored as many points from any move last year as Demas did from his inside trip. He’ll be scouted a LOT more going into this year and I’d be shocked if he had anywhere near the same statistical success with it against elite competition. 

Don’t mean to be too negative on Demas...fun guy to watch, but I just don’t think he’s on the same level as Gross.

 

I think Seth Gross is great and even when he lost to Meredith it was extremely competitive.  I just think you are underestimating some of the other talent at 141.   Lee, Demas and other guys at the weight (McKee and Shoop are also pretty dangerous).   At this level there isn't always a lot of distance between the top guys.  Remember the SF match Tariq Wilson had with Gross when Gross was at his peak, winning NCAAs?  Any of these guys are capable of stepping up a level and challenging for a title the year at 141.  That's why it is so much fun following this sport.  

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20 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

TOEFL and SAT are completely different tests that measure different things. One is a test of English proficiency for foreign students. The other is a test of general aptitude. One would not take the place of the other. 

I may be mistaken on this: many moons ago, I taught at a school with a lot of international students.  I was told that these kids would take the SAT, but only the math portion would really count.  They could substitute TOEFL for their verbal score.

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I have never heard of a school that replaces any section of the SAT with the TOEFL score. Not saying it’s impossible, but it is either rare or you’re not recalling correctly because the two tests are completely different. Some schools do not require an SAT/ACT, like Iowa State: https://www.admissions.iastate.edu/intl/

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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1 minute ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I have never heard of a school that replaces any section of the SAT with the TOEFL score. Not saying it’s impossible, but it is either rare or you’re not recalling correctly because the two tests are completely different. Some schools do not require an SAT/ACT, like Iowa State: https://www.admissions.iastate.edu/intl/

And Ryan Anderson supposedly didn’t get into ISU right?  I’m somewhat amazed if so and yet Echemendia could (nothing against Echemendia, I just imagine it would be tough to take college coirses with only a year of so of English)

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4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

And Ryan Anderson supposedly didn’t get into ISU right?  I’m somewhat amazed if so and yet Echemendia could (nothing against Echemendia, I just imagine it would be tough to take college coirses with only a year of so of English)

Just a hunch, but I'm sure there is leeway for kids like Enchemendia moreso than Anderson who went to a prep school his entire life.

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18 hours ago, lu1979 said:

I think Seth Gross is great and even when he lost to Meredith it was extremely competitive.  I just think you are underestimating some of the other talent at 141.   Lee, Demas and other guys at the weight (McKee and Shoop are also pretty dangerous).   At this level there isn't always a lot of distance between the top guys.  Remember the SF match Tariq Wilson had with Gross when Gross was at his peak, winning NCAAs?  Any of these guys are capable of stepping up a level and challenging for a title the year at 141.  That's why it is so much fun following this sport.  

I do remember that Tariq match and how close it was. Even though it ended in a pin it was an OT pin so I won’t try to spin it. If not for that one close match Gross had in the NCAA tournament I’d be even more incredulous when it comes to how much Gross is being overlooked (by a large swath of people, not you specifically) going into this season. He thoroughly dominated everyone else. There aren’t too many examples in the past 5 or so years where a guy was that dominant in the NCAA tournament and didn’t wind up winning the hodge. Imar’s ncaa tournament his freshman year comes to mind...where he dominated everyone except for James Green in the semis.

I don’t have anything against Demas and Lee, I just don’t think they’re typical of the level where the #1 and #2 contenders are at most weights most years. There are some thin weights every year and 141 isn’t the only thin weight this year...I don’t think the top 1-2 guys at 149 or 197 are on Gross’ level either.

Will be fun to watch play out this season. 

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On 10/7/2019 at 6:56 AM, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Echemendia man... kid is a beast.  Still haven't seen him get challenged.  Also doing his post-match interviews in English and doing a pretty good job of it.  

There were a number of other guys that were impressive.  

O'Toole is just a winner. That kid always finds a way.  

41 and 49 are ASUs weakest spots. How did they let this kid get out of state. 

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